I was wondering the same question [not the part about AD buying Guard IFF washouts, the answer is NO]...I'm a buff reservist and that's the first time I've heard that story. I'm a young guy though so this may predate my membership. At any rate, the buff community does have a stigma of washouts abound but that's not true of the Reserves. Plenty of A-10 dudes in the unit, and plenty more who went direct to the buff off-the-street. There's so many Vipers and Hawgs to go around, not everyone gets curtain #1 in the century of the UAV, some of us needed a job yet skated through tac form (by pure work ethic if for no other incentive really) just as well as the viper selectee. I'd be very interested in hearing the whole story on that one c17.

That said, all else being said here is right, attitude is a big part of UPT. There were several dudes on my UPT class that washed out because they just didn't tolerate being treated like children in their late 20s. Most of the young ROTC and academy types didn't have much of a problem being treated poorly. So it was an age thing. Yeah one or two just didn't have the hands, but the majority of folks who didn't have problems flying in the civi world who did wash out, did so because they couldn't put up with the treatment at their age. It's a sucky experience really for the prior flyers (I hated UPT personally, the AF has a way of sucking the fun out of flying, but that's another story), but that year is a small price to pay for an otherwise excellent aviation opportunity, compared to a regional no less. So it's all about perspective.

 

Trust me...he was with the IL guard unit who bombed the Canadians awhile back. The unit was cleaned out--from the WG/CC all the way to those in UPT who werent performing well.

This guy was told he wouldnt fly for ANY fighter unit. He got picked up by a 130 unit in IL after graduating UPT, but thought it was beneath him to fly a cargo plane. He later got hired by the Barksdale Buff unit.

 

I started UPT with a handful of civilian hours (160). I thought I had a pretty good aviation background.

The Air Force taught me stuff, particulary about energy-maneuverability, and unusual attitude recovery, that the civilian world didn't even know existed.

I thought it was hard work but the best flying training I ever got.

Fast-forward. I've flown for the Air Force for 25 years; flew for the Navy for 3 yrs, fly Part 121 (10 yrs), flew Part 135 (two of the crappiest yrs of my life).

The USAF is the best job of them all. Ain't perfect, but beats the others easy in pay, benefits, job security (unless you're being shot at), schedule, believe it or not, maintenance (especially compared to Part 135), and for me, a sense of doing something worthwhile.

Doesn't matter if you are AD, Res, or Guard. All good.

 

Think carefully about what you "want" out of the USAF. If all you want to do is fly, then definitely go Guard or Reserves. You may not make as much money as on AD, but you also won't have to deal with crappy additional duties which take you out of the cockpit, i.e. training shop, scheduling, mobility, flt CC writing OPR's, CC's exec, tactics, etc. I'm writing this from a "heavy" perspective, I can't speak to the fighters, but I'll tell you that even among younger guys, flying ends up being an additional duty; i.e. a few flights a month, unless you deploy. When you deploy, you fly your a** off. And depending on which airframe you're in, you can expect to be overseas a lot. I think fighters are on AEF cycles, but AMC aircraft are not for the most part. That means lots of 4 months on, 4 off type cycles; just things to think about.

If you can get a TR slot in a guard or reserve unit, then your sole purpose in life will be flying... unless you "volunteer" to farm yourself out to do additional duties.

Bottom line: as previously mentioned, you really need to think about what you want from the Air Force? I listed a bunch of negatives from a career "pilot" perspective. But on a positive note, they do take care of you and your family; you get great benefits; and work with some great people. Just remember though, on AD, you're an Officer first, pilot second... If that doesn't interest you and you really just want to focus on flying, then go Guard or Reserves. That's my $0.02 anyway.

 

I can't find words strong enough to convey the fact that if you want to fly in the Air Force, it's imperative that you go GUARD/RESERVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Don't go AD if you can avoid it, unless this is a 20 year commitment you're willing to make. Guard/Reserve is the only way to go. I'm a single guy, no dependents, so perhaps my views are biased...but if flying is important to you AD is risky at best. These days you're looking at one ops assignment and then off to ALO, UAV...and it's not just the fighter/bomber dudes anymore...I have multiple bros from AMC who yes, have flown their asses off, but are now about to take delivery of their beautiful UAVs at CC! Dude, if I could turn back the clock...

 

Thanks guys,

I can put up with other duties in AD no prob..
Like I said the most important issue is QQL. I really like to know about typical schedule in AD.

 

The danger of an ANG fighter unit, especially, these days is that in the last BRAC they soaked up the most hits for conversion to UAVs.

 

Vader,

If you have not figured out by now, UPT is mostly about having the right ATTITUDE. If you rub instructors the wrong way, life can be short for you at UPT (even if you come in with a guard/Reserve slot). If you have the right attitude, they will often bend over backwards to help you make it through. While some flying skills will transfer from civilian to military very easily, there are those that are so different from anything you have ever done & you may want to question them...don't. Be a sponge while you are at UPT, RTU, new to a unit & then let your past experience come forward once everyone gets to know you. At UPT, the top stick & bottom yoke usually stand out, the rest are fairly even.

As for what to fly later (no matter AD, Guard, or Reserve), ask yourself, what do you want to be doing in 7 - 10 years after UPT. Do you still want to be following that fighter dream? There are a lot of AD fighter guys out there who are doing a lot of non-fighter tours (TALO, UAV, etc) between fighter tours. Do you want to go back to the airlines? I know guys who stayed as UPT instructors to build the PIC time before going off to fly heavies & then out of the AF. Do you want to be stationed overseas (aside from you TDY tours)? Only certain airframes have overseas bases. My 2 best assignments were Germany & Japan (a completely different AF). Do you want to anchor/homestead in one spot. You can't beat the Guard & Reserve for giving some of that stability. Bottom line, keep an open mind (& closed mouth) going into UPT & follow your instincts for what will be right for you to fly later.

 

The guy said active duty, not guard...does USEERA protect if you join a regular branch on regular AD?

 

First, despite everyone's "get a guard job" advice, that is MUCH easier said than done. Most pilots going guard/reserve are leaving AD and going into a guard/reserve unit which flies their MWS (major weapons system = aircraft). So there are no training $$ involved -- the pilot can be checked out and flying operationally almost immediately. To walk into a pilot slot off the street is extremely difficult. Most non-pilots have to enlist, pay a few years of "dues" to the unit and if they're a good person, then maybe they'll be selected for a UPT slot.

Second, no one has mentioned it, but pilot production at least in the Air Force is currently at historic lows. The AF has been cutting cockpits and flying hours and personnel to try to pay for operational commitments (ie fighting the way). Not saying it makes sense, just saying that's what's going on. With that, it's currently more difficult than in years past to even get a UPT slot.

Third, as has been said, if you do end up with a military flying slot, DO NOT go in with a chip on your shoulder. Had a regional airline pilot in my flight screening class who damn near washed out! Don't know if she made it through when she got to UPT.

Fourth, I would not be looking at the military to improve your QOL, unless your definition of QOL is living in a tent in the desert with a bunch of other guys and being gone from home all the time. It's one thing to be out on a four day trip in a couple states over, it's completely different being on the other side of the world for months at a time -- oh and people trying to kill you while you're there.

I'm not saying the military is bad -- I loved the years I spent flying in the AF. However, if your major objective is to improve your QOL, then I don't think I could honestly recommend going into the military. You WILL be gone a lot more, have NO say on where you go, and unlike your current job where you can quit any day you get fed up enough, in the military you ARE there for your entire commitment. I would also strongly agree with the advice to take military leave from your current employer so you have a fall-back just in care. Again, I'm not trying to say it's bad, but get the feeling that you haven't fully looked into what you'd be getting yourself into.