I got out in May of '07 and never looked back. Yeah it was hard earning only $40k/yr for the first ten months, but the VSP helped out and kept us from having to touch our retirement plan. Then most of the fractionals got pay raises and now I'm making good money my first year with NJ on the 18-day sched. I'm gone half the year now, but I would have been gone for at least four months this year anyway in the sandbox on a non-flying assignment. I get two weeks of vacation next year which amounts to about six weeks off (two periods of three weeks straight on the 7&7 schedule). After five years I'll have three weeks of vacation and after ten I'll have four. This amounts to three months off out of the year on the 7&7 schedule (with every other week off in addition). The fractionals are very different from the airlines, but I love the job (a lot like flying the C-21) and it is nice and stable in this current economy.

 

The reserves have alot of advantages. I am in a unit and have a contractor job 8-4 on base which makes it easier to do TPs/Man days at night BUT...
it can be a drag also.

As a Major and flying once a week plus all the normal committments I figure I will clear about 20k or so this year. Sleep loses out though with this lifestyle because I have to be back at work every morning no matter how late I stay. I can promise you it will be very tough to fly weekly with a true job in the business world especially if you have to commute a little ways (more than 30 minutes). Trying to fly til midnight and then show back up in the morning and working another full day is a drag. I repeat it because I guess I thought it would be easier when I got out. At least the ARTs get to blend the two together. Losing a weekend every month is a real drag also... especially during football season!!!!!

All I am saying is being really active in the reserves is much easier for airline pilots with flexible schedules than it is for a stockbroker/insurance/9-5 type. Make sure you factor that in...

 

I'm at the same point. A Major with over 10 years and I've had it! I just 7 day opted out of a T-38 to Columbus. I realize allot of pilot's these days would die to fly that jet, especially making over 100K doing it. I've been scr*^ed over too much. I'm ready to make my own decisions at this point. Even if I'm flying a banner in southern Florida, at least I have the choice to leave or stay. The AF leadership is taught to "Stand on the backs of their people", No kidding. Even in my short tenure, things have drastically changed to an unacceptable level. When regulations and QOL aren't upheld, the AF answer is "You could be in IRAQ". I for one am rolling the dice and taking my chances. There's is a better life! Not even to mention the 365's that are soon coming down the pike. When I submitted my separations paperwork and asked to remain flying, the answer I received from my squadron commander was, sorry, don't have the time for ya, you’ll complete your duties as a Major in the USAF until you separate. Another words, don't let the door hit ya! I was prepared for that though. Bottom line, there's jobs out there and if you want a career change, the GI bills offer some other avenues. I realize we're the minority, so if anyone else is submitting their separation, please PM me your email so we can keep each other abreast of any ideas or opportunities.

 

I never planned on staying but here I am with 4 years left. I can retire where I'm at with a deal, one year IA. So in these last 4 years, I will be with family for 3 of them and all 3 will by flying. Can't say I'm happy with the one year but thats the Navy and the military. It's tough as well as my wife's immediate family, both brothers now own and operate a portion of a moving company (All My Sons); two seperate locations. Not that it's my dream but the money in only their second year that they are bringing in is right on with the business plan. One is making between $15-16k a month now and the other is around $10-12K a month but he has a smaller operation in a smaller city. Both are right at the two year mark in ownership and operation. The size of their operation means about double next year before it levels out. However, it was big struggle for both the first year...meaning very low profits and pay, very low. I'm betting on the safe side, stay and retire and if I choose to add to the business, I've got pay and insurance during the first year to year and a half. I tell ya though, it's tempting to punch, go reserves and struggle for that year to earn what they are making now. I'm just a bit to worried after losing a bunch of money in my home and not having enough to pay bills or even barely get by. I've set it up so that all cars are paid for, my one loan is gone and debt free at 20 years. Either SW, FED EX, UPS or owning an All My Sons is the goal.

 

I wouldn't leave with four years left in this economic environment, unless maybe you have an offer from one of the big three. Even then, if things get bad enough they might furlough too.

As for the reserves...with 16 AD your monthly retirement check would be significant. However..

- You won't get a dime until age 60, as I'm sure you know.

- Unlike the ANG, the navy reserve WILL NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES allow someone with 16 years AD to go on orders long enough to get a regular AD retirement...since the reserves, not AD, would have to pay for it. If you decide later that you want to finish 20 years AD, you would have to find a full-time ANG job for four years.

- You would have to serve for 8 years in the reserves to qualify for a reserve retirement...you would have to make O-5 in the reserves to avoid HYT, if you have not already done so. You would get the first board after you leave AD, so you would need to have your record in order before you leave. Even so, I think reserve HYT is 24 years for an O-5, so you would want to carefully research the rules and calculate your timing...even as an O-5 you might come up a bit short. The transition from AD may not provide a seamless one-for-one continuity of creditable years of service if you leave at the wrong time.

- And here's something to lose sleep over...reservists, not the navy, are responsible for their own being medical fitness for duty. If you get hurt or sick on civilian time, you may not be allowed to participate in the reserves to the extent needed to qualify for retirement.

Let's say you do 16 AD, then 6 drilling reserve for 22 total...then what happens if you get sick and are NPQ? Well, you have your 20, but you still need 8 in the reserves to get a reserve retirement...you are two years short. Suppose you get better in one year...well you need two more years but you are only allowed to stay until 24 years of comissioned service (unless you make O-6). You are one year short...I suppose you could write your congressman and try to get an HYT waiver at that point.

The gotcha here is that HYT is measured in years of commissioned service...this is a clock which ticks inexorably from your comissioning date, the only way to stop it is to resign. In the reserves, the years you need for retirement are not granted automatically...you have to participate a certain amount at certain times. If your participation falls short you can have fewer "good" years for retirement the you have years of comissioned service. If you reach HYT tenure for your paygrade before you get your 20 and 8, you may be hosed. It is normal to grant two years HYT waiver for someone with 18 good years of service, but I am not certain that they do that for someone who has the 20 but needs 8 in the reserves...that would be another thing to look into.

Just be aware that by going this route you are placing a lot of money on the table with some risk that you won't get to collect on it.

Thoughts on this Salty?

 

Wow, I hadn't heard this was happening again. Are you guys overmanned? Is this happening in anyone else's community?

Sounds like you made the right call, good luck out there.

 

AS an AF Reserve IMA I can comment on this abit. Rick partly what you say is true, however there are many ways to skin this cat. First, as a AF Reserve IMA there is no HYT for an 0-4. (reference HQ ARPC website, Separations, MSD) You establish a HYT date once you've been passed over for 0-5 twice. You meet your first 0-5 board after you have completed one good year before the board meets, which it meets about June or so each year. For an 0-5 HYT would be 28yrs based on TFCSD.
The Reserve Officer Personnel Management Act (ROPMA) of 1996 changed the HYT rules.

As for ways to work the system. Remember you get a buttload of points for ACSC or AWC. While both of them suck to do. Once completed, you can get up to 2 years of points for each course which could put you over the 8yrs of reserve requirement should you have a medical problem.

I do know that the Navy has this policy about folks with high AD time getting to the 18year sanctuary, but as far as I know the AF does not have this. There are many cases with guys getting off AD with 16yrs getting to the reserves and building up heaps of AD time with long trips and such and making it to 20yrs AD with an immediate retirement. I would guess you would have about 25-26yrs of Total Commissioned Service by the 20yr AD point if you worked the system right. I can think of 3 folks that even made 0-6 doing this with an immediate 0-6 retirement! These guys all had 5-10yrs of longevity with their airline when they started to collect their immediate 0-6 retirement!

That being said, you can work the system too hard/well and medically stress yourself out way too early(before 20yrs service) (trying to make a reserve job into an AD one) and perhaps then you have something to worry about.


Lifter

 

Bottom line, there are jobs out there, maybe not the job you want NOW, but what I call transition jobs, where you have your sights set on you dream flying gig, but go with an accpetable alternative for the short term that pays the bills and provides med insurance. Three things: there are jobs you just have to look, be patient with the long term dream job, and have a financial nestegg to ease the transition.

I 7 day opted a nuke staff job with a likely 365 after for family happiness. I was lucky and found a good job flying, paying decent wages.

The advice I continue to get solicited for from my friends in my old unit is this: decide what assignments/career path makes your family happy, and more importantly what is unacceptable(for me - sucky non-flying staff job in undesirable location, with 365 looming). By establishing this line in the sand with your family everyone knows what will happen if that turd assignment comes down. That being said I told a bud to ask the AF for exactly what he wanted, not be shy, he put in for crossflow to tankers(stating that was what he needed to stay in - that line in the sand) and got it. Great for him. The point is everyone scenario is just a little different. The AF is a great gig and if you can get bigblue to cough up what you want, which is getting harder and harder these days, then stay the hell in.

So the hard part I think, is defining what is unaccpetable to you and your family, which by the way was a family decision for me a year ago, and made the decision to punch very easy, when the AF crossed the line.

What I gave up - job security, high pay, retirement at 41 vs 60 (I got a reserve job)

What I gained - family stability(moving to my retirement city next year), kids will begin 1st grade in the same district they will graduate highschool from, piece of mind that I own my destiny(priceless), and finally, begining the second career we will all have a little earlier.

YOU ONLY GET ONE SHOT AT LIFE, ENJOY IT, BE HAPPY AND HAVE NO REGRETS

 

The OP and I are both navy, so everything I said was navy-specific. As I mentioned ANG (and USAFR) have more liberal rules.

For example STATUTORY high year tenure for all services is in fact 28 years, it's illegal to stay longer...but the navy reserve evicts you at 24, immediately after you get all of your O-6 looks.

 

Rick,

understand.

This Reserve thing is amazing. I'm doing it at Stuttgart and can't believe the twists and turns the program takes.

Good luck to you,
Lifter