Staying in...?
10-08-2008 | 10:27 AM
#21
Line Holder
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 431
Likes: 1
From: 737 FO/Capt/FO
Bottom line, there are jobs out there, maybe not the job you want NOW, but what I call transition jobs, where you have your sights set on you dream flying gig, but go with an accpetable alternative for the short term that pays the bills and provides med insurance. Three things: there are jobs you just have to look, be patient with the long term dream job, and have a financial nestegg to ease the transition.
I 7 day opted a nuke staff job with a likely 365 after for family happiness. I was lucky and found a good job flying, paying decent wages.
The advice I continue to get solicited for from my friends in my old unit is this: decide what assignments/career path makes your family happy, and more importantly what is unacceptable(for me - sucky non-flying staff job in undesirable location, with 365 looming). By establishing this line in the sand with your family everyone knows what will happen if that turd assignment comes down. That being said I told a bud to ask the AF for exactly what he wanted, not be shy, he put in for crossflow to tankers(stating that was what he needed to stay in - that line in the sand) and got it. Great for him. The point is everyone scenario is just a little different. The AF is a great gig and if you can get bigblue to cough up what you want, which is getting harder and harder these days, then stay the hell in.
So the hard part I think, is defining what is unaccpetable to you and your family, which by the way was a family decision for me a year ago, and made the decision to punch very easy, when the AF crossed the line.
What I gave up - job security, high pay, retirement at 41 vs 60 (I got a reserve job)
What I gained - family stability(moving to my retirement city next year), kids will begin 1st grade in the same district they will graduate highschool from, piece of mind that I own my destiny(priceless), and finally, begining the second career we will all have a little earlier.
YOU ONLY GET ONE SHOT AT LIFE, ENJOY IT, BE HAPPY AND HAVE NO REGRETS
I 7 day opted a nuke staff job with a likely 365 after for family happiness. I was lucky and found a good job flying, paying decent wages.
The advice I continue to get solicited for from my friends in my old unit is this: decide what assignments/career path makes your family happy, and more importantly what is unacceptable(for me - sucky non-flying staff job in undesirable location, with 365 looming). By establishing this line in the sand with your family everyone knows what will happen if that turd assignment comes down. That being said I told a bud to ask the AF for exactly what he wanted, not be shy, he put in for crossflow to tankers(stating that was what he needed to stay in - that line in the sand) and got it. Great for him. The point is everyone scenario is just a little different. The AF is a great gig and if you can get bigblue to cough up what you want, which is getting harder and harder these days, then stay the hell in.
So the hard part I think, is defining what is unaccpetable to you and your family, which by the way was a family decision for me a year ago, and made the decision to punch very easy, when the AF crossed the line.
What I gave up - job security, high pay, retirement at 41 vs 60 (I got a reserve job)
What I gained - family stability(moving to my retirement city next year), kids will begin 1st grade in the same district they will graduate highschool from, piece of mind that I own my destiny(priceless), and finally, begining the second career we will all have a little earlier.
YOU ONLY GET ONE SHOT AT LIFE, ENJOY IT, BE HAPPY AND HAVE NO REGRETS
you've got a PM
Lifter
10-08-2008 | 05:14 PM
#22
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 394
Likes: 0
From: In the bunk
Getting out now is a tough choice, especially if you're single income.
I got out in Dec 06. Now I fly for SWA, and do the reserve gig. Love life. QOL is great. I get to pick and choose Reserve trips I want.
Of course, it helps that my wife has a full time good paying job.
Do I have any regrets? Hell NO!
I got out in Dec 06. Now I fly for SWA, and do the reserve gig. Love life. QOL is great. I get to pick and choose Reserve trips I want.
Of course, it helps that my wife has a full time good paying job.
Do I have any regrets? Hell NO!
10-08-2008 | 05:58 PM
#23
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 694
Likes: 0
From: Walmart Greeter
[quote=rickair7777;475602]
- Unlike the ANG, the navy reserve WILL NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES allow someone with 16 years AD to go on orders long enough to get a regular AD retirement...since the reserves, not AD, would have to pay for it. If you decide later that you want to finish 20 years AD, you would have to find a full-time ANG job for four years.quote]
Not entirely true. It's case by case. I know a few reservists that have retired off of ADSW orders(not the normal business rules). I am working with a reservist as we speak in my civilian job that just got another set of ADSW orders that will take him over 20. It's all up to that specific community and if the requirement is there for a billet to be filled with either a RC on AD orders or an AC member, the billet will be filled. It's not very common if at all in the aviation world in flying billets. Most of the retirements I have seen have all been from dudes serving on Major staffs working for some N code with a 2 or 3 star going to bat for the requirements.
- Unlike the ANG, the navy reserve WILL NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES allow someone with 16 years AD to go on orders long enough to get a regular AD retirement...since the reserves, not AD, would have to pay for it. If you decide later that you want to finish 20 years AD, you would have to find a full-time ANG job for four years.quote]
Not entirely true. It's case by case. I know a few reservists that have retired off of ADSW orders(not the normal business rules). I am working with a reservist as we speak in my civilian job that just got another set of ADSW orders that will take him over 20. It's all up to that specific community and if the requirement is there for a billet to be filled with either a RC on AD orders or an AC member, the billet will be filled. It's not very common if at all in the aviation world in flying billets. Most of the retirements I have seen have all been from dudes serving on Major staffs working for some N code with a 2 or 3 star going to bat for the requirements.
10-09-2008 | 03:23 AM
#24
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 113
Likes: 0
From: C-5, 68th AS Rated Hiring Board Chief, B-1 Aircraft Commander/Mission Lead
This is a great thread! Glad to hear others are in my situation that I can share ideas and concerns with. Few people are going against the grain these days, and this separation process in itself is confusing. It almost appears easier to stay in so I can avoid the #$@pain of the paperwork! Maybe that's what their counting on? :-)
I appreciate all the inputs from all the services in this matter, who know what reserve component that we'll end up with?
I appreciate all the inputs from all the services in this matter, who know what reserve component that we'll end up with?
10-09-2008 | 04:06 AM
#25
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 694
Likes: 0
From: Walmart Greeter
Lancer, I was in the same boat. I essentially had no job or reserve job lined up until about 15 days prior to my actual separation date. It was a bit nerve racking but in the end it worked out and usually does for those that keep working it. Never once did I look back and say.....wow maybe I should have stayed in. Those would have been wasted brain cells and probably would have ended up giving me a set of 1 year IA orders to a not so fun place.
With the airlines not hiring I was forced a bit to go the civ sector(contractor) route and was able to negotiate the reserve gig that I was hired for. As I posted earlier, it was a very fortunate situation for me, that just took patience. That said the reserve process has been anything but easy. I'm not sure how hard the affiliation process is for the guard guys coming off AD but joining the SELRES side of the Navy has been a complete A$$ leaping event and a re-invention of the proverbial wheel for a process that is done on a daily basis across the Navy. In the end however, it's well worth the pain and the $$ is nice.
With the airlines not hiring I was forced a bit to go the civ sector(contractor) route and was able to negotiate the reserve gig that I was hired for. As I posted earlier, it was a very fortunate situation for me, that just took patience. That said the reserve process has been anything but easy. I'm not sure how hard the affiliation process is for the guard guys coming off AD but joining the SELRES side of the Navy has been a complete A$$ leaping event and a re-invention of the proverbial wheel for a process that is done on a daily basis across the Navy. In the end however, it's well worth the pain and the $$ is nice.
10-09-2008 | 06:05 AM
#26
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 113
Likes: 0
From: C-5, 68th AS Rated Hiring Board Chief, B-1 Aircraft Commander/Mission Lead
Thanks BDGERJMN,
I've got less than 7 months and there's no way I'm looking back. They make it easier and easier everyday. I'm sad at what this great service has turned into. I personally talked to the 2 star in charge of AF personnel. As they discussed the pilot shortage, I said "You're completely lucky that the market is as poor as it is, otherwise their would be mass exiting! If you allowed us more options, we'd probably stay". She later emailed me and seemed concerned, I guess we'll see? Either way, it's time for me to find something better!
I've got less than 7 months and there's no way I'm looking back. They make it easier and easier everyday. I'm sad at what this great service has turned into. I personally talked to the 2 star in charge of AF personnel. As they discussed the pilot shortage, I said "You're completely lucky that the market is as poor as it is, otherwise their would be mass exiting! If you allowed us more options, we'd probably stay". She later emailed me and seemed concerned, I guess we'll see? Either way, it's time for me to find something better!
10-09-2008 | 06:44 AM
#27
Owner
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 304
Likes: 0
From: TC-12B (SELRES)
Thanks BDGERJMN,
I've got less than 7 months and there's no way I'm looking back. They make it easier and easier everyday. I'm sad at what this great service has turned into. I personally talked to the 2 star in charge of AF personnel. As they discussed the pilot shortage, I said "You're completely lucky that the market is as poor as it is, otherwise their would be mass exiting! If you allowed us more options, we'd probably stay". She later emailed me and seemed concerned, I guess we'll see? Either way, it's time for me to find something better!
I've got less than 7 months and there's no way I'm looking back. They make it easier and easier everyday. I'm sad at what this great service has turned into. I personally talked to the 2 star in charge of AF personnel. As they discussed the pilot shortage, I said "You're completely lucky that the market is as poor as it is, otherwise their would be mass exiting! If you allowed us more options, we'd probably stay". She later emailed me and seemed concerned, I guess we'll see? Either way, it's time for me to find something better!
First off, good luck to you. BDGERJMN and I were in your shoes a year or so ago. We are friends from flight school and were able to bounce ideas off eachother which I know helps in the long run. These forums are great for this sort of thing. You will find the perfect gig, trust me, it will work out if you are commited to making your life better which is exactly what it sounds like you are doing. We only go around this merry-go-round once, don't waste it. That picture of the frog choking the bird that is eating it comes to mind, "Never give up"
10-09-2008 | 07:54 AM
#28
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 768
Likes: 0
From: Bus
one piece of advice from my recent sep experience - line up a guard/res job prior to sep. If not ensure you are sworn into IRR prior to sep. I am having a little extra pain since my MPF discharged me instead of transferring me to the IRR. Got an IMA job and the process tkaes longer if you are considered a "reappointment." There are a ton of reserve jobs out there, get one, even if not your ideal one, because you can transfer easily once in.
10-09-2008 | 08:17 AM
#29
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 44,908
Likes: 694
From: Engines Turn or People Swim
[QUOTE=BDGERJMN;475943]
It has happened in the past, and I will not deny that there folks trying to get there now, but the organization which will get stuck with the bill (CNRF) will fight it tooth and nail. Not a very safe bet.
- Unlike the ANG, the navy reserve WILL NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES allow someone with 16 years AD to go on orders long enough to get a regular AD retirement...since the reserves, not AD, would have to pay for it. If you decide later that you want to finish 20 years AD, you would have to find a full-time ANG job for four years.quote]
Not entirely true. It's case by case. I know a few reservists that have retired off of ADSW orders(not the normal business rules). I am working with a reservist as we speak in my civilian job that just got another set of ADSW orders that will take him over 20. It's all up to that specific community and if the requirement is there for a billet to be filled with either a RC on AD orders or an AC member, the billet will be filled. It's not very common if at all in the aviation world in flying billets. Most of the retirements I have seen have all been from dudes serving on Major staffs working for some N code with a 2 or 3 star going to bat for the requirements.
Not entirely true. It's case by case. I know a few reservists that have retired off of ADSW orders(not the normal business rules). I am working with a reservist as we speak in my civilian job that just got another set of ADSW orders that will take him over 20. It's all up to that specific community and if the requirement is there for a billet to be filled with either a RC on AD orders or an AC member, the billet will be filled. It's not very common if at all in the aviation world in flying billets. Most of the retirements I have seen have all been from dudes serving on Major staffs working for some N code with a 2 or 3 star going to bat for the requirements.
It has happened in the past, and I will not deny that there folks trying to get there now, but the organization which will get stuck with the bill (CNRF) will fight it tooth and nail. Not a very safe bet.
10-09-2008 | 08:20 AM
#30
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 694
Likes: 0
From: Walmart Greeter
[quote=rickair7777;476178]
Oh I agree with that 100%. I would never bet on the come in terms of relying on that, but to say it NEVER happens is not accurate either. It's out there.
Oh I agree with that 100%. I would never bet on the come in terms of relying on that, but to say it NEVER happens is not accurate either. It's out there.
