sandlapper

Has anyone here reconsidered their intentions to separate from active duty in light of the bleak economic situation? That 20-year retirement is looking pretty attractive right about now.

milky

As far as I can tell right now, the only reason to get out would be for lifestyle reasons. There are not many jobs that pay as well or offer as great a retirement as the military. Unless you can get on with UPS, FEDEX or SWA and never get furloughed and never have their payscale reduced, you probably won't even catch up to what you make in the military now and in the future with retirement. Even at one of those I listed, you have to put a good chunk of your pay in the bank to make up for the military retirement.

One caveat to all this is that my numbers are based on retiring at age 55. I cannot imagine having to go to work at a job every day after that age. I'm sure I will still work, but it will be doing something I want to do for fun not because I need the steady paycheck to live. If you look at being a pilot at one of the top lines until you are 65 (assuming you can medically do so), then maybe you can beat the retirement of the military.

All that being said, I'm probably getting out of regular active duty next year. But, I do not think there will be any airline job that I will consider worthwhile. Probably off to the business world unless something changes dramatically.

Squirt

I got out of AD and went AGR and so far it's been the right choice. I realize there's no real difference in pay, retirement, healthcare, benefits, etc...However, if I was still in I'd look for an AGR slot anywhere (barring the pred units). I'm a fighter guy, but my family is my priority and I'd do whatever it took to watch my little man grow up. In todays environment, I'd wait (assuming I had the time) for POM 10 to drop to get a feel for unit missions in the future. Not moving again will be a huge bonus.

I guess you have to weigh the pay and bennies with your QOL. It's going to depend on your threshold of pain/pay ratio. If I didn't get blessed with an AGR at a guard unit, I was still going to punt and find something to do. I'm not a Harvard grad, but, I'd be able to find something to provide for my family. Too many dumb people making too much money on the outside (just look at our financial debacle). Don't know if Airlines would be in my choices.

BDGERJMN

NO. I made the decision to get out in April of 2007 and got out in August 2008. At the time I got out the economic situation wasn't where it is now nor had the age 65 legislation passed. 4 months later my wife and I found out we were expecting twins. So there I was set up to get out in August of 2008 with 4 month old twins, no airline was hiring, and no job. Sure I was sweating it a bit. I took a job with a contractor that is allowing me to still fly in the reserves and was hired by my squadron's reserve component. My QOL is awesome, I'm home on the weekends and nights with no commute, no travel, still flying in the reserves. I don't have to tell my wife and kids that I'm going away for a year on an IA or even 6 months on cruise. I'm making more money than when I left AD if you combine the contractor job with drill pay. I am very very fortunate and realize that not everyone is as lucky as I am. I am very thankful for what I have. I do however think that with alot of work and research guys like myself are very marketable in the outside world. Just my .02. I haven't looked back once on my decision. Looking back is not an option when you have two infants to feed and worry about healthcare etc. Making the jump was the hardest decision I have ever made, but in the end the QOL and time with family was far more important than a retirement @43 yrs old. I'll get that at 62. Sure it would be a 'nice to have' but I'll take my chances with smart financial planning rather than reliance on a paycheck.

SoPinesHeel

If you can handle the moves, deployments, BS etc. stay in until things improve. As I have said before, there are worse things in life than Captains pay on the 15th and 30th.

If you want to stay where you are and have something lined up job wise/reserves/guard I would get out but just realize what you are giving up and what you are getting into.

There is no free healthcare in the civilian world. Bumming in the reserves does not equal active pay no matter what anyone says etc...

dbtownley

Questions to ask yourself:

1. Do I want to get out of the military becuase I don't like what I am doing?
2. Am I willing to wait years in the airlines to get back to my current lifestyle.

One captain said to me "You know, this used to be a great DEAL where you don't have to work that much and you make a sh*t ton of money, and now, its just a JOB."

The airline job is a JOB, there are plenty of jobs for prior military pilots (all pilots actually). All pilots have developed senses, leadership, decision making, all that CRM stuff makes you sought after in the market place.
Make the decision to get out/stay in the military becuase you want to, not for money, you won't be happy.

BDGERJMN

Your points are well taken if you're assuming people get out for monitary reasons. I could care less about paying 300/month for good health care if it means my family can see good doctors rather than rely on the tricare debauchery in a military saturated area. Staying in for a paycheck and losing that precious family life and time at home when it counts is not my idea of a solid reason for staying. The military is now run quite honestly like a business and has seriously gotten away from the task at hand. To that end the military is wearing its most precious asset too thin.

The bottom line is each person has his/her own reasons for staying in or getting out. I would never criticize(not saying you are) anyone for doing either. There is no right or wrong answer IMHO.

ugleeual

I got out back in 2000 (QoL) with a job offer from UAL... got furloughed in 2002... came back on AD... and now will stay until 20 years. Having a 20 year retirement is a nice thing to have in your hip pocket. IF the airlines (majors) were hiring i would recommend cutting and running NOW... but since they are not, i would recommend staying in for 20... or however many years you can stomach. When you cannot stand what you are doing its time to leave. I have always liked the AF... and enjoyed my squadrons... just the OPTEMPO was killing the family life... now its worse!

I would not bank on contractor jobs being around in the very near future (sometime before this FY 09 ends). Word on the street (HAF level) is that GWOT money (funds most contractor jobs) is going away... and with it will be thousands of contracting jobs. I think the money pot at the end of the rainbow is going to go away with the election.

Good luck on whatever decison you make... its a difficult one.

Cheers,

Ferd149

I retired from the AF and went to work for NWA in the mid 90s. For several years I kicked myself for not getting out earlier as the guys my age that did get out were my captains making almost twice what I was making. Then 9/11, and all that has happened since. Would it have happened anyway? Who knows, lord knows this industry is a roller coaster ride.

My point is, having that retirement check coming in every month is a stress reducing shock absorber that vastly improves my QOL. I've taken it easy many months bidding min schedules then making up for it later IF I WANTED TO. Also, I've relaxed as a senior FO not feeling the need to chase $$ by being a junior captain.

Take it from the old dude..........stay in and get the pension. If not, take your education and do something else other than the roller coaster airline industry.

Ferd

Cooperd0g

I'm six weeks away from going terminal and I'm not at all going to change my mind. For one, my wife has a good career and makes as much as me. I figured staying another 10 years to hit 20 will require five moves thus ending her career for the most part. Besides that, several of those tours aren't anything I really want to do. I no longer have any interest in the airlines due to their nature. There is only one flying job I am trying for, other than that I am looking to the corporate world were my experiences as an officer can get me near equal pay to what I'm making now - and that is to start. No miserly first year airline pay and being gone all the time.

One problem with most aviation jobs is that if one goes away you have to start at the bottom for another. If your corporate job goes away for some reason, you can take all those skills to another company and likely don't have to start at the bottom again. Sure it isn't flying, but it is being home almost every night.

I plan on staying in the reserves/Guard also which will keep some flying fun and the future retirement. It will be a little tougher to drill with an 8-5 type corporate job, but it can be done.