Logging AF time

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06-21-2009, 09:24 PM

#21

USMCFLYR

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Position: FAA 'Flight Check'

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Quote:

Originally Posted by MalteseX

A little "inside" intel.

When I gave interviews:

For heavy guys, everything else being equal (hand carried resume, meeting chief pilot, having inside recommendations etc) 7500 hours is a very "magic" number. The computer would give a max flight time score to military guys with over 7500 hours for a human "look". Civ guys the number is higher. For fighter types, the number is lower but I don't remember what it was. (I'm thinking it was 3500-4000 fighter or trainer hours)

PS for those who don't know. The computer gives a "score" to a resume/application depending upon the quals of the pilot candidate. Education is scored; flight time; jobs held; leadership positions; check airman/stan eval; IP qual; "extra" duties (no kidding) (want a higher score, be a safety officer or teach Instrument refresher courses); schools attended (yes SOS etc COUNTS higher)---at our company, you had to translate the terms to civilian however; Did not understand stan/eval-- had to use Check Airman etc.

Your company did understand that that amount of fighter time is only acheived by a very few - and it is only going to get worse right? At least in my community you would ONLY be seeing retirees and a few special people who were either lucky in the career or had some extra high time year to gain that much experience. Now those who went to the training command would have a greater chance to achieve those types of total times. Right now people getting out with about 10 years of time have around 1500 TT - some are struggling to make those ATP minimums.
Heavy guys......are you guys really getting that much time? WOW!

USMCFLYR

06-22-2009, 02:06 AM

#22

Giggity

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Posts: 124

Quote:

Originally Posted by MalteseX

A little "inside" intel.

When I gave interviews:

For heavy guys, everything else being equal (hand carried resume, meeting chief pilot, having inside recommendations etc) 7500 hours is a very "magic" number. The computer would give a max flight time score to military guys with over 7500 hours for a human "look". Civ guys the number is higher. For fighter types, the number is lower but I don't remember what it was. (I'm thinking it was 3500-4000 fighter or trainer hours)

PS for those who don't know. The computer gives a "score" to a resume/application depending upon the quals of the pilot candidate. Education is scored; flight time; jobs held; leadership positions; check airman/stan eval; IP qual; "extra" duties (no kidding) (want a higher score, be a safety officer or teach Instrument refresher courses); schools attended (yes SOS etc COUNTS higher)---at our company, you had to translate the terms to civilian however; Did not understand stan/eval-- had to use Check Airman etc.

There are maybe 5-10 people with that kind of hours in the entire AF.

06-22-2009, 02:11 AM

#23

MalteseX

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Quote:

Originally Posted by USMCFLYR

USMCFLYR

Those were the times to "max" the flight time scoring of the resumes. It wasn't the min. The mins were at least 1500 hours total.

You are right, however. Very few people had those numbers of hours--usually only retirees from days long past.

I wonder what is going to happen (what companies will do) when many guys who have gone to an "unmanned vehicle" assignment for a big portion of their military career, start getting out.

06-22-2009, 09:12 AM

#24

KC10 FATboy

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Position: Legacy FO

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I had over 3500 hours ... and I was very conservative on my time. The current active duty heavy guys are getting more time than I did. For a period of about a year, I was on a desk duty assignement and only flew for currency.

03-30-2011, 09:57 AM

#25

sledy

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Posts: 37

Thread Revival:

I'm updating all my civilian logs with my military time and wanted to see what others are doing.

I've got my UPT time and breakdown via TIMS that has solo T-37/38 time broken down and I've logged that as PIC.

My ARMs and vMPF breakdown only shows my AT-38 time for IFF which I logged as all dual, and my MWS time only shows C or D breakdown. How are guys logging MWS time? I logged all D model time as dual recieved even after the Form 8 and all solo, i.e. C Model time as PIC until B course complete. Does that sound reasonable? Or are guys just taking PAA time and going with that and not bothering with C vs. D time?

Thanks for the inputs

Sledy

03-30-2011, 05:46 PM

#26

Billy Pilgrim

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Posts: 122

Sledy - you getting out? I am counting all my C model and D model time as PIC. Even in the B course you're flying with an IP, so he logs instructor and you log PIC. I flew across the pacific in the d model with the flight doc, but that was rare, normally they'd put some new guy with an IP so they both could log. I'd PM you, but I just got my account.

Good luck!

03-30-2011, 06:09 PM

#27

Hacker15e

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Posts: 1,920

Quote:

Originally Posted by sledy

I've got my UPT time and breakdown via TIMS that has solo T-37/38 time broken down and I've logged that as PIC.

My ARMs and vMPF breakdown only shows my AT-38 time for IFF which I logged as all dual, and my MWS time only shows C or D breakdown. How are guys logging MWS time? I logged all D model time as dual recieved even after the Form 8 and all solo, i.e. C Model time as PIC until B course complete. Does that sound reasonable?

That's exactly how I've logged my fighter/trainer time.

03-30-2011, 06:33 PM

#28

bschref

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Position: G-IV & G-200

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Billy Pilgrim

...Even in the B course you're flying with an IP, so he logs instructor and you log PIC...

I think you'd probably have a tough time convincing anyone you were the PIC in that situation. "Primary" time isn't necessarily PIC.

03-30-2011, 07:27 PM

#29

Adlerdriver

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Billy Pilgrim

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billy Pilgrim

Good luck!

Billy,
There have been lots of threads on this so you may want to use the search function.

I'm assuming you're getting this time sorted out because you're applying to airlines?

You need to be careful about how you present your "family model" time. Many airlines are very specific about what they will accept as PIC time. The most common definition I've seen is that you had to be the one "signing for the aircraft". Basically, that reads you were the one ultimately responsible for the aircraft.
If you flew a B-course sortie in a D-model with an IP on board, you weren't the PIC (remember this has nothing to do with FARs or the military regs).

Keep in mind that many of the airline interviews are conducted by current or former fighter pilots or pilots they’ve tipped off about what to look for. They know you spent your first 6 months flying at the FTU in D-models with IPs on board. They might remember that lots of new guys get a local area fam ride in a D-model w/ an IP when they first get to their first base. They also know about the pond crossing with the new guy and the IP. Basically, they know the guy who shows up claiming 100% (or something close) of their D-model fighter time as PIC is not being truthful.

I would recommend the following:
-Remove any solo UPT time from your PIC total. You weren't a pilot yet and you were basically soloing under the responsibility of your IP and the SOF (remember the solo brief).

-Remove any D-model FTU sorties since you were clearly receiving instruction and the IP had the hammer. If you got a local area check-out at your first operational base in a D-model, I'd toss that too.

-The occasional D-model / IP sortie when you were operational is harder to track. I never kept a logbook, so I couldn’t begin to know which tub sorties had an IP. Those probably won't stand out like the FTU stuff might to a former military fighter guy interviewing you. I've flown plenty of tubs solo.
Note: this assumes you are using your AF records and not some personal logbook to document your military time. An AF flight record entry with a date, tail #, a/c type and flight time is pretty generic. If you have a log book that details you flew a DACT mission in a tub w/ an IP and you count that in your PIC total, you’re setting yourself up for some tough questions.

Good Luck.