Once I graduate this May I'll be applying for Army WOFT and an Air Force flight slot. Now, ideally if either branch offers me a flight slot the path looks to be relatively straight forward. However realistically, I know a good number of OTS canidates didn't get there with their first application and I know its in my best interest to have a backup plan; so thats where my question lies.

Should I not get this slot immediately I plan on beginning a commericial career and joining the reserves. I want to serve and it's also essential I have some means to pay off civilian flight training debts. The real question is: should I apply for OCS/OTS or enlist? While OCS/OTS looks initally attractive, my logic is that enlisting would be the better option if I wanted to fly with the military. I'm just assuming that if I was assigned to an officer MOS with expensive training that I'd have a hard time trying to convince the Air Force/Army that a lateral move to flight training would benefit anyone but me. However, if I could find an enlisted MOS that didnt include extensive training, upwards mobility might be a little more likely. This is pretty much a guess though, and I was wondering if anyone here would be kind enough to relate their experience with reserve or AD.

Also, if I don't get this slot I plan on trying to join a reserve base close to an aviation hotspot. Now I know the industries in the ****ter currently, but is there any place that anyone would recommend? I'm just looking for an area with a high concentration of regionals.

Thanks for reading, any input is appreciated.

 

First off, what do you want to do in life?

1. If you really want to be a military pilot at all costs, apply to all services, (active, reserve, and guard) which will offer a flight guarantee. This assumes you are OK with helicopters, which will not help your airline prospects much...but they are fun to fly and have great missions in the military if that is your focus.

2. If you want to be a career military officer, stick with active duty, but understand that your track will involve lots of staff work, higher education, politics, and less flying.

3. If you want to be an airline pilot, then I would REALLY do everything you can to get a guard/reserve slot. Start civilian training immediately so that you are not left hanging out to dry if the military doesn't pan out. The ideal situation would be to get hired at a regional airline BEFORE you join the guard/reserves but the timing may not be ideal for that since you don't have any ratings and almost no one is hiring.

If you can't swing guard/reserves, then consider active duty, but be aware that you will want to get into fixed-wing aircraft. You are almost guaranteed FW in the USAF. Navy/USMC is a crapshoot, Army and USCG most likely helos. If do get assigned helos there will probably be opportunities later in your career to acquire military FW time but of course there are no guarantees on that.

As far as enlisting...as a soon-to-be college grad your focus should be on commissioning programs. If you really want to fly, do NOT accept a commissioning program without a flight slot guaranteed (recruiters will lie, don't believe them unless it is in writing). You are correct in that there are limited opportunities for officers to change career tracks, but I have never, ever heard of an enlisted man being denied the opportunity to take a commission (you don't even have to complete your enlisted contract). If you can't get an officer slot, enlisting could help you get a flight slot, but join a guard/reserve squadron which flies an airplane you would like to fly...that will enhance your chances of getting a pilot slot with that unit. Good quality enlisted service will also help when you apply to any commissioning program.

Note that even if you get into the military pipeline there are no guarantees that you be assigned the aircraft you want. In fact the USAF is even diverting new pilots into UAV's...which will do absolutely nothing for your possible airline career.

Also some guard/reserve squadrons are losing their airplanes...if you enlist make sure the squadron is going to be doing the things you want to do for a while (any officer at the unit would know).

 

Thanks for the response. I want to fly and I want to be in the military, any combination of the two I'll be happy with. Since I'm planning on starting a civilian career whenever practical, the way I've worked this out out is: if I end up in rotorcraft and it's active duty, I'll have to make a pretty good effort to move from active to reserves. I know that helo time is valued very little if it all by most carriers, it seems if I do end up flying one I'd have to hold a civilian career at the same time.

That being said, the airframe doesn't matter diddly to me; I can work around what I've got. Well in everything except for the UAVs. Thats the serious downside to the Air Force at this point. I can't imagine what it must be like to go make it through flight school AND jet training only to be assigned to a UAV afterwards. It IS an inherent risk afterall, and it seems the only thing I could hope for is that the Air Force will take the que of the Army and start training enlisted in the MOS, rather than spending X millions of dollars just to place someone in a UAV.

Finally, I don't have any restrictions to whom I'm applying for; I want the flight slot. However, I know the Air Force and the Army are my most realistic bets, because they do not put anywhere near as much weight on the GPA as the Navy/USMC does. Yes, I know GPA shows up on Air Force f56, and can be part of the whole person picture, but I'm thinking I've gotten lucky because it is no longer a central part of the application. The only downside to my package is I'm looking at a 2.2/2.3 final GPA; my school just got ranked 9th in the world, but it's international and the standards are different. I'm working my ass off this year and I'll probably be looking a semester GPA of MAYBE 2.6/2.7, our school's average gpa is a 2.3. Now, I know I can justify these marks with a few articles that have been published on it, but I'm not thinking a Navy/USMC board is really going to care about my school's reputation, but rather just my final GPA. However, that may not be the case and I know the whole person concept factors in, I'm just so far south of competitive in that field that I look like a dud.

Anyway thanks for taking the time to respond, I hope what I said here is mostly accurate. Would you say that most branches allow those on AD to switch to reserve at some point in their contract, or am I just making that up?

 

For the USN/USMC and probably the USAF...

"contract" a.k.a. commitment... USN=Wings + 8 years USAF=Wings + 10 years

Transferring over to the reserves during your commitment doesn't happen that often but it has happened. It is not the normal path.

Transferring after you commitment is up is more the norm.

So if you go AD, expect your civilian plans to be on hold for quite a while.

 

Simply put, NO.

Once you graduate from college most of the paths to a commission in the service are closed for Enlisted personnel, in the Navy the only option becomes OCS. Before graduation there are several fantastic options. I don't know as much about the Army/USAF. Essentially, the service thinks that if you weren't good enough to get into OTS/OCS from the outside, why should you be any more competitive as an Enlisted member. You will also quickly run up against the statuory age limit for commissioning (prior to the 31st birthday) for unrestricted line commissions. The Navy typically limits entry into flight training to age 27. There simply isn't much time between normal college graduation, Enlistment, and the magic age of 27 There are exceptions, but they are they are one off events, not the norm.

Your perception about your GPA situation is exactly correct. Sure, sounds like you went to a tough school, good on you, but by your own analysis you are just average at your school and that is how it will be analyzed by a selection board. Naval Aviators, by definition are not average people. The competition for commissions and especially flight slots in the Navy is one of the toughest there is.

Getting into flight training from the enlisted ranks is an EXTREMELY RARE event. I know, because I did it, you can PM me for details. Any recruiter who claims otherwise should be forced to produce the data to back up the claim. I have watched way too many niave kids get suckered into a term of bitter service, once they figure out that the path they thought they could take isn't really an option for them.

For the life of me, I don't understand why college grads enlist in the service instead of pursuing a commission.

You join the military service because you want to serve, not because you want someone else to provide your flight training $$. If you are lucky enough to get flight training out of the deal, great, but I wouldn't count on it.

Good Luck in your quest. Fly Safe

It's not just a job, it's an adventure, I remember hearing that somewhere before. A SNL commercial bit comes to mind... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SL-OtsN9VdM

SD

 

This needs to be clarified...to actually get a flight slot without getting accepted into a regular commissioning program is very rare, although the navy is running a test program which does exactly that (I don't think they are taking any more applicants though). The navy also did this during WW-II, not that it helps you any.

The army is the exception, you can into army flying as a warrant officer, and it's a little bit easier than some other programs. However...I cannot guarantee that a 4-year degree with a low GPA would beat out a 2-year degree with a high GPA in the army. They are still looking for quality folks, they just don't put as much emphasis on higher education.

If you are APPLYING for a commission (aviation guarantee or otherwise) enlisted service will help. It shows that you can handle military service and do not have unrealistic expectations or attitudes about what you are getting into. Also most military folks do like to take care of their own. But be aware you need to excel while enlisted. Mediocre performance will do more harm than not enlisting in the first place.

But since you have the degree, try to get a commission first. Make sure you explain your schools grading standards in your letter. I suspect they will fall back on your class rank to get an idea of where you stand. It will help if you had a difficult major (engineering/physical science). If you were in the top 20% of engineering grads, let them know that and try to document it somehow.

 

I enlisted in the AF with the same plan, thinking I was stepping closer to the goal while I finished getting good stuff for my application. Maybe it helped in the long run, maybe not. Enlisting is definitely NOT the fast track that gets you closer to a commission and flight slot that it would seem to be, though.

It is very competitive inside, and enlisted service is pretty consuming right when you want to be focused on another goal. Admittedly, I had to finish school first and insisted on working on my ratings on the side as well, but it was a long, very uncertain process trying to get an officer slot in the end anyway.

I ended up getting out after a fun, busy enlistment. It was undeniably the springboard that led to my DoD employment and eventual entry into WOFT, but alas my vision wiped me out before I could get my Army wings. Ironically, it was a degradation of my distant visual acuity (which the ex-AF doc had passed me on during my initial) that eventually disqualified me. I blame the avionics work I did in the Air Force.

IT was my fall-back then, and has proven lucrative, flexible, and stable while I fly as a civilian, but as a Plan B, the route I took was a lonnnnng one.

 

We hire folks off the street for AFRES SUPT slots. You will need to take the AFOQT and those scores plus your flying hours combine to total a PCSM score.
I have looked past C average GPAs because of the difficulty of the major, the fact that the person was IN the reserves pursuing the degree while participating at the same time, etc.

Take the AFOQT, get your resume, transcript, logbooks and letters of rec together and send to some AFRES and ANG units. You might be surprised.