Quite a fall from Sec Gates
#21
From what I can tell the marines attract a different sort of officer. (Understatement of the year.)
That being said I don't think DOD really cares about individual marines (short of those who gave the ultimate). Honestly, how many divorces, troubled dependent children, alcoholics, suicides, etc do the service chiefs really "care" about? It makes them look bad, sure but I never get the impression that they go home worrying about it. I can tell you of guys who went to the boss pleading to not deploy because their wife was ready to leave them and they were ordered out the door, despite having other options. The ORI was coming to town after all and they weren't on "the list"...
I think the point of this though is to say you hate the flag because you look suscpisously at our government and it's leaders is way off base. I think one needs to realize that there are many people in our government who care more about themselves than "the flag" and being upset about that or pointing it out isn't unpatriotic. More towards UnderOvuer than to you.
That being said I don't think DOD really cares about individual marines (short of those who gave the ultimate). Honestly, how many divorces, troubled dependent children, alcoholics, suicides, etc do the service chiefs really "care" about? It makes them look bad, sure but I never get the impression that they go home worrying about it. I can tell you of guys who went to the boss pleading to not deploy because their wife was ready to leave them and they were ordered out the door, despite having other options. The ORI was coming to town after all and they weren't on "the list"...
I think the point of this though is to say you hate the flag because you look suscpisously at our government and it's leaders is way off base. I think one needs to realize that there are many people in our government who care more about themselves than "the flag" and being upset about that or pointing it out isn't unpatriotic. More towards UnderOvuer than to you.
Big DOD (service chiefs since you used them as an example) don't generally care about the individual because they are removed from them. They in turn take care of their immediates and it is suppose to filter down. I want them to make sure that the mechanisms are in place for those problems to be taken care of - and for the problems you listed there are numerous facilities and programs in place to care for the service member.
I remember being in charge of determining the 'list' for deployment. I was also surprised for the million and one reasons people came up with NOT being able to deploy. It is always easy to question the decisions, especially if you are able to sit back without all of the information.
...say you hate the flag because you look suscpisously at our government and it's leaders is way off base.
I certainly had my issues with the way things were run, but overall - I definitely think that I had a better experience on active duty than a few others posters on APC and it is NOT indicative of a majority of the people that I came across during my time.
#22
I wish I could say the same thing. Unlike you, the few I have met could not differentiate between the nation and the politicians. And as for the politicians, there are a few who "served" who I would argue despise the flag enough to throw their fellow servicemen under the bus. Or perhaps it's more accurate to say they are so narcissistic as to only care about themselves such that they were/are readily willing to throw their fellow servicemen under the bus for their own gain, and have. Fortunately for all of us, they are the exception and not the rule. I worry that this is changing, though.
UnderOveur, you need to realize something that many military members figure out shortly after signing up.
At least in the Air Force, your leadership is largely comprised of careerist "yes men" who will make your life a living hell with no compunction when it means a quicker promotion for themselves.
At least in the Air Force, your leadership is largely comprised of careerist "yes men" who will make your life a living hell with no compunction when it means a quicker promotion for themselves.
I think the point of this though is to say you hate the flag because you look suspiciously at our government and it's leaders is way off base. I think one needs to realize that there are many people in our government who care more about themselves than "the flag" and being upset about that or pointing it out isn't unpatriotic.
#23
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2007
Position: Petting Zoo
Posts: 2,068
Why will he be so bad?
I'll give two caveats (opinions) to my question
- There will be significant military cuts regardless of who is in charge
- Anyone who doesn't realize there is an amazing amount of waste in the military clearly has zero knowledge of, or experience with, the military.
I really am curious though, the GOP arguments I heard against him dealt with his previous statements about Iraq, Iran and Israel. None of which seemed that controversial [to me] and beside the point anyway--US Foreign policy isn't dictated by the SecDef.
I'll give two caveats (opinions) to my question
- There will be significant military cuts regardless of who is in charge
- Anyone who doesn't realize there is an amazing amount of waste in the military clearly has zero knowledge of, or experience with, the military.
I really am curious though, the GOP arguments I heard against him dealt with his previous statements about Iraq, Iran and Israel. None of which seemed that controversial [to me] and beside the point anyway--US Foreign policy isn't dictated by the SecDef.
#24
Why will he be so bad?
I'll give two caveats (opinions) to my question
- There will be significant military cuts regardless of who is in charge
- Anyone who doesn't realize there is an amazing amount of waste in the military clearly has zero knowledge of, or experience with, the military.
I'll give two caveats (opinions) to my question
- There will be significant military cuts regardless of who is in charge
- Anyone who doesn't realize there is an amazing amount of waste in the military clearly has zero knowledge of, or experience with, the military.
On your second point, the end of year spending fiasco's that I have seen make me sick to my stomach. There were times my unit didn't have enough funds to buy new flight boots (most of us bought our own anyway, but that's not the point) or gear, but the end of year funds had to be spent on flat screens for the OPS desk...truly sickening...
#25
Why will he be so bad?
I'll give two caveats (opinions) to my question
- There will be significant military cuts regardless of who is in charge
- Anyone who doesn't realize there is an amazing amount of waste in the military clearly has zero knowledge of, or experience with, the military.
I really am curious though, the GOP arguments I heard against him dealt with his previous statements about Iraq, Iran and Israel. None of which seemed that controversial [to me] and beside the point anyway--US Foreign policy isn't dictated by the SecDef.
I'll give two caveats (opinions) to my question
- There will be significant military cuts regardless of who is in charge
- Anyone who doesn't realize there is an amazing amount of waste in the military clearly has zero knowledge of, or experience with, the military.
I really am curious though, the GOP arguments I heard against him dealt with his previous statements about Iraq, Iran and Israel. None of which seemed that controversial [to me] and beside the point anyway--US Foreign policy isn't dictated by the SecDef.
Mister, you aren't looking for answers. You're looking for an argument. In your own words, none of the GOP concerns in this nomination were controversial to you, and "beside the point anyway". So beyond this response, what is the point in answering a man(?) who already has his mind made up? A: None.
Please do read into this response the same dismissive attitude you brought along with you in your disingenuous post.
#26
And anyone who doesn't realize there is an amazing amount of waste outside of the military budget clearly has zero knowledge of, or experience with, the the current US gov't.
#27
Agreed wholeheartedly...However, know the audience you "speak" to and try not to make general assumptions, when you load a gunners gun for him, don't complain on what comes down range...
#28
I wonder how many other individuals were offered the position and turned it down ?
Someone who's up to speed on what's going on ie Gen.Mattis or someone else of his caliber might have been better suited and then again they might have turned down the offer of SecDef.
Bit of a read and it speaks volumes in some aspects.
Some of you have read this and some have not so I'll post it again .
General Failure - Baseops Forums
Fred
Someone who's up to speed on what's going on ie Gen.Mattis or someone else of his caliber might have been better suited and then again they might have turned down the offer of SecDef.
Bit of a read and it speaks volumes in some aspects.
Some of you have read this and some have not so I'll post it again .
General Failure - Baseops Forums
Fred
#29
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2007
Position: Petting Zoo
Posts: 2,068
Mister, you aren't looking for answers. You're looking for an argument. In your own words, none of the GOP concerns in this nomination were controversial to you, and "beside the point anyway". So beyond this response, what is the point in answering a man(?) who already has his mind made up? A: None.
Please do read into this response the same dismissive attitude you brought along with you in your disingenuous post.
Please do read into this response the same dismissive attitude you brought along with you in your disingenuous post.
I didn't think his comments were controversial--I'm not really seeing how that's "dismissive." Or for that matter "disingenuous." Is it his comments that make you think he'll be a bad SecDef?
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