FY13 Aviation Continuation Pay for Pilots
05-24-2013, 09:11 PM
#31
Line Holder
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jan 2011
Posts: 52
Originally Posted by crewdawg
I think he was basically saying there is no way I'm staying, figuring they would never pay him a 500k bonus.
I can't speak personally as I'm a Guard guy, I can just relay what I'm hearing from some of my AD friends and the guys rushing our squadron. They just seem to be run into the ground. Here are some of the ones we hear the most.
-6 month AEFs (not too bad, but is when coupled with the rest of the bs)
-365s (non-flying) to your choice of the garden spots we go to.
-Constant TDYs when they are home
-SOS correspondence before going in-residence (why do it twice?)
-Spending what time you have home getting a bs masters
-Yes man leadership
-12-14 hour days, 5-6 days a week, doing "busy" work
-Seeing crappy pilots that can plan the heck out of a Christmas party getting the good deals/promotion
-1 mistake AF
-Alcohol is bad, no Friday shirts, no morale patches, no heritage...
-Now you can add, sexual assault retardedness to the list
Ran into a friend from training, in the AOR recently. He had been at his home station base for ~2 years. I asked him how things were down there. His response...I don't know, I'm never there.
I can't speak personally as I'm a Guard guy, I can just relay what I'm hearing from some of my AD friends and the guys rushing our squadron. They just seem to be run into the ground. Here are some of the ones we hear the most.
-6 month AEFs (not too bad, but is when coupled with the rest of the bs)
-365s (non-flying) to your choice of the garden spots we go to.
-Constant TDYs when they are home
-SOS correspondence before going in-residence (why do it twice?)
-Spending what time you have home getting a bs masters
-Yes man leadership
-12-14 hour days, 5-6 days a week, doing "busy" work
-Seeing crappy pilots that can plan the heck out of a Christmas party getting the good deals/promotion
-1 mistake AF
-Alcohol is bad, no Friday shirts, no morale patches, no heritage...
-Now you can add, sexual assault retardedness to the list
Ran into a friend from training, in the AOR recently. He had been at his home station base for ~2 years. I asked him how things were down there. His response...I don't know, I'm never there.
05-25-2013, 05:20 AM
#32
Abused Spouse of PBS
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Posts: 435
In 2006, I had the initial paperwork for the bonus signed and faxed in. They were just waiting on a wet signature from me. I took a couple of calls and emails from AFPC that were essentially badgering me to sign the paperwork. I politely told them each time that I had until 30 September to sign it and that I was still thinking about it. I am sure glad I waited because I happily accepted a reserve opportunity that created a very pleasant and unexpected life vector for me and my family. I say this despite being furloughed from UAL after less than a year from getting hired. I freely admit there was a lot of divine intervention during these past years and have been well taken care of which I am very grateful.
At our squadron's "hail and farewell," my Ops Group commander told me and the other guy that were getting out that we were just "cogs in the wheel." This is from the same guy who as squadron commander of the 17th in CHS, grounded anyone who put their separation papers in. Although he was essentially correct, I would expect a little more class after 10 years of honorable active duty service. So, it is 2006, I separated from 10.5 years of active duty with a wife, 3 kids (age 4, 2, and 6 months)
To this day, I still feel and freely tell others that if they offered the 20 year bonus at the time, I would have stayed in (take 1/2 up front, invest..etc). Looking back on it, I am glad I did not and here is why:
Altus: 2004-2008 (would have left in 2008 if I did not separate)
Good flying assignment: 2008-2012 (at 16 year point and all flying gates met)
2012-2016: staff tour/non-flying (if I were in, this is what I would be doing right now)
So, in 2016, I would be finishing a staff tour at my 20 year point having not flown in the past 4 years. As a 20 year Lt Col with no flying in the last 4 years, what is the likelihood that the AF would send me back to a cockpit? That is still 3 years into the future. I think most reasonable people would feel as I do and think the chances are low that I would be able to return to the cockpit.
From a family perspective, my wife and I discussed if it would be easier to get out when my kids were 4,2, and 6 months old versus 14, 12, and 10. Each option had their own perceived challenges, but this was a big factor in our decision as well. Looking back these 6.5 years, it has been nice to see my kids grow up with the same friends and in the same school.
I guess my point is that I am glad that someone took the time to mentor me and tell me that whatever path I chose, that I would need to tackle either one with equivalent fervor because it would determine the course of your life for the next 10-20 years. If I chose to stay in, then I would need to become super Capt/Maj (volunteer for extra duties, get the schools done, etc.). If I chose to get out, I would need to aggressively get my ATP, FE written, and applications out.
It's a tough choice. Just take comfort in knowing that whatever path you choose is well travelled and well marked. Don't be afraid to ask for advice from those you respect and trust. Only you know what is best for you and your family and that can never, ever be stressed enough.
Now, with all that being said, if I were facing the decision today with what is going on with my active duty counterparts, I would try to get hired by a guard/reserve unit and separate in a New York minute!
Good luck!
C17D
At our squadron's "hail and farewell," my Ops Group commander told me and the other guy that were getting out that we were just "cogs in the wheel." This is from the same guy who as squadron commander of the 17th in CHS, grounded anyone who put their separation papers in. Although he was essentially correct, I would expect a little more class after 10 years of honorable active duty service. So, it is 2006, I separated from 10.5 years of active duty with a wife, 3 kids (age 4, 2, and 6 months)
To this day, I still feel and freely tell others that if they offered the 20 year bonus at the time, I would have stayed in (take 1/2 up front, invest..etc). Looking back on it, I am glad I did not and here is why:
Altus: 2004-2008 (would have left in 2008 if I did not separate)
Good flying assignment: 2008-2012 (at 16 year point and all flying gates met)
2012-2016: staff tour/non-flying (if I were in, this is what I would be doing right now)
So, in 2016, I would be finishing a staff tour at my 20 year point having not flown in the past 4 years. As a 20 year Lt Col with no flying in the last 4 years, what is the likelihood that the AF would send me back to a cockpit? That is still 3 years into the future. I think most reasonable people would feel as I do and think the chances are low that I would be able to return to the cockpit.
From a family perspective, my wife and I discussed if it would be easier to get out when my kids were 4,2, and 6 months old versus 14, 12, and 10. Each option had their own perceived challenges, but this was a big factor in our decision as well. Looking back these 6.5 years, it has been nice to see my kids grow up with the same friends and in the same school.
I guess my point is that I am glad that someone took the time to mentor me and tell me that whatever path I chose, that I would need to tackle either one with equivalent fervor because it would determine the course of your life for the next 10-20 years. If I chose to stay in, then I would need to become super Capt/Maj (volunteer for extra duties, get the schools done, etc.). If I chose to get out, I would need to aggressively get my ATP, FE written, and applications out.
It's a tough choice. Just take comfort in knowing that whatever path you choose is well travelled and well marked. Don't be afraid to ask for advice from those you respect and trust. Only you know what is best for you and your family and that can never, ever be stressed enough.
Now, with all that being said, if I were facing the decision today with what is going on with my active duty counterparts, I would try to get hired by a guard/reserve unit and separate in a New York minute!
Good luck!
C17D
05-25-2013, 07:20 AM
#33
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2010
Posts: 288
Buyer beware.
From another forum. Probably one of the better perspectives on the bonus that I'd seen.
Originally Posted by BitteEinBit
Keep in mind, any bonus you sign is not intended to benefit you in any way unless you are in it for the money (which really isn't much). All the bonus does is obligates you to Big Blue, it does not obligate Big Blue to you. In other words, while you can't get out of your "10-year" deal, Big Blue can release you at any time from your 10-year deal no questions asked. So it doesn't guarantee anything especially a career to 20 years and a pension. This is a type of "force management" without actually having to manage. They know they have you because you can't leave, but they can cut you if they realize they don't need you. Having "free agents" in a world of 365s to ****crackistan and 7-day opts forces Big Blue to actually manage people and they don't want to have to do that. As long as you know that going in, you won't be disappointed if you get RIFd, bonus or no bonus, when the Air Force has to draw down.
05-25-2013, 10:26 PM
#34
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: C-17 Everything
Posts: 113
Originally Posted by C-17 Driver
In 2006, I had the initial paperwork for the bonus signed and faxed in. They were just waiting on a wet signature from me. I took a couple of calls and emails from AFPC that were essentially badgering me to sign the paperwork. I politely told them each time that I had until 30 September to sign it and that I was still thinking about it. I am sure glad I waited because I happily accepted a reserve opportunity that created a very pleasant and unexpected life vector for me and my family. I say this despite being furloughed from UAL after less than a year from getting hired. I freely admit there was a lot of divine intervention during these past years and have been well taken care of which I am very grateful.
At our squadron's "hail and farewell," my Ops Group commander told me and the other guy that were getting out that we were just "cogs in the wheel." This is from the same guy who as squadron commander of the 17th in CHS, grounded anyone who put their separation papers in. Although he was essentially correct, I would expect a little more class after 10 years of honorable active duty service. So, it is 2006, I separated from 10.5 years of active duty with a wife, 3 kids (age 4, 2, and 6 months)
To this day, I still feel and freely tell others that if they offered the 20 year bonus at the time, I would have stayed in (take 1/2 up front, invest..etc). Looking back on it, I am glad I did not and here is why:
Altus: 2004-2008 (would have left in 2008 if I did not separate)
Good flying assignment: 2008-2012 (at 16 year point and all flying gates met)
2012-2016: staff tour/non-flying (if I were in, this is what I would be doing right now)
So, in 2016, I would be finishing a staff tour at my 20 year point having not flown in the past 4 years. As a 20 year Lt Col with no flying in the last 4 years, what is the likelihood that the AF would send me back to a cockpit? That is still 3 years into the future. I think most reasonable people would feel as I do and think the chances are low that I would be able to return to the cockpit.
From a family perspective, my wife and I discussed if it would be easier to get out when my kids were 4,2, and 6 months old versus 14, 12, and 10. Each option had their own perceived challenges, but this was a big factor in our decision as well. Looking back these 6.5 years, it has been nice to see my kids grow up with the same friends and in the same school.
I guess my point is that I am glad that someone took the time to mentor me and tell me that whatever path I chose, that I would need to tackle either one with equivalent fervor because it would determine the course of your life for the next 10-20 years. If I chose to stay in, then I would need to become super Capt/Maj (volunteer for extra duties, get the schools done, etc.). If I chose to get out, I would need to aggressively get my ATP, FE written, and applications out.
It's a tough choice. Just take comfort in knowing that whatever path you choose is well travelled and well marked. Don't be afraid to ask for advice from those you respect and trust. Only you know what is best for you and your family and that can never, ever be stressed enough.
Now, with all that being said, if I were facing the decision today with what is going on with my active duty counterparts, I would try to get hired by a guard/reserve unit and separate in a New York minute!
Good luck!
C17D
At our squadron's "hail and farewell," my Ops Group commander told me and the other guy that were getting out that we were just "cogs in the wheel." This is from the same guy who as squadron commander of the 17th in CHS, grounded anyone who put their separation papers in. Although he was essentially correct, I would expect a little more class after 10 years of honorable active duty service. So, it is 2006, I separated from 10.5 years of active duty with a wife, 3 kids (age 4, 2, and 6 months)
To this day, I still feel and freely tell others that if they offered the 20 year bonus at the time, I would have stayed in (take 1/2 up front, invest..etc). Looking back on it, I am glad I did not and here is why:
Altus: 2004-2008 (would have left in 2008 if I did not separate)
Good flying assignment: 2008-2012 (at 16 year point and all flying gates met)
2012-2016: staff tour/non-flying (if I were in, this is what I would be doing right now)
So, in 2016, I would be finishing a staff tour at my 20 year point having not flown in the past 4 years. As a 20 year Lt Col with no flying in the last 4 years, what is the likelihood that the AF would send me back to a cockpit? That is still 3 years into the future. I think most reasonable people would feel as I do and think the chances are low that I would be able to return to the cockpit.
From a family perspective, my wife and I discussed if it would be easier to get out when my kids were 4,2, and 6 months old versus 14, 12, and 10. Each option had their own perceived challenges, but this was a big factor in our decision as well. Looking back these 6.5 years, it has been nice to see my kids grow up with the same friends and in the same school.
I guess my point is that I am glad that someone took the time to mentor me and tell me that whatever path I chose, that I would need to tackle either one with equivalent fervor because it would determine the course of your life for the next 10-20 years. If I chose to stay in, then I would need to become super Capt/Maj (volunteer for extra duties, get the schools done, etc.). If I chose to get out, I would need to aggressively get my ATP, FE written, and applications out.
It's a tough choice. Just take comfort in knowing that whatever path you choose is well travelled and well marked. Don't be afraid to ask for advice from those you respect and trust. Only you know what is best for you and your family and that can never, ever be stressed enough.
Now, with all that being said, if I were facing the decision today with what is going on with my active duty counterparts, I would try to get hired by a guard/reserve unit and separate in a New York minute!
Good luck!
C17D
05-26-2013, 03:18 PM
#36
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Bus
Posts: 768
Similar story, FTU EP and got out in 2008 at 13 year mark when facing a crappy staff tour and a 365 to boot. Knew I would never see the cockpit again. "Needs of the AF" was all my CC could say when presenting me the POS assignment. Spoke to the wife and got out without a flying job. Got a flying gig right away and now a major. Of course we had a nice nest egg set aside for just such a career threat reaction. Everyday I literally wake up thanking the AF for showing me the light.
05-26-2013, 11:22 PM
#37
On Reserve
Joined APC: May 2013
Position: M/H/AC-130 Inst Pilot
Posts: 19
I've been very fortunate in getting back in the cockpit for the end of my AF life (26+ yrs). I stayed in because I enjoyed the people; the bonus was just that "a bonus". I saw the failings of leadership from the start of the bonus with feet on the ram policies in the 90s. The changes now, with current military benefits and to VA benefits for members who already served their time, have made it a breaking point for me to hang it up. I had the pleasure of enjoying my career with incredible warriors. The future of our military is in jeopardy. I see many good people leaving at their first opportunity. I hope we get warriors and not business managers back in control.
05-27-2013, 03:36 AM
#38
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2009
Position: Lowest Pay I Could Find
Posts: 1,044
Originally Posted by steelhorse
I've been very fortunate in getting back in the cockpit for the end of my AF life (26+ yrs). I stayed in because I enjoyed the people; the bonus was just that "a bonus". I saw the failings of leadership from the start of the bonus with feet on the ram policies in the 90s. The changes now, with current military benefits and to VA benefits for members who already served their time, have made it a breaking point for me to hang it up. I had the pleasure of enjoying my career with incredible warriors. The future of our military is in jeopardy. I see many good people leaving at their first opportunity. I hope we get warriors and not business managers back in control.
05-27-2013, 11:02 AM
#39
Straight QOL, homie
Joined APC: Feb 2012
Position: Record-Shattering Profit Facilitator
Posts: 4,202
Originally Posted by 130drvr
Of course we had a nice nest egg set aside for just such a career threat reaction.
Make sure you have a pile of cash on hand so you are not forced to stay. Many of us know a guy who had to stay because he owed on his boat, plane, BMW, and child support. No way he could survive a few weeks/months without a gig, or on year 1 pay. Don't be that guy.
Live within your means, spend wisely, and give yourself the option to bail when your buffoonery meter is pegged.
05-28-2013, 08:57 AM
#40
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Bus
Posts: 768
Yeah, that was the difference maker in the decision process. We we were able to consider what was best for the family, and not what we could afford. Having your financial house in order takes so much stress out of life. I can't tell you how many mil buds had to stay in due to not being able to afford it, despite their family wanting/needing them to get out.
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