FY13 Aviation Continuation Pay for Pilots
06-03-2013, 08:20 AM
#82
Freight never complains..
Joined APC: May 2011
Position: Middle of nowhere
Posts: 21
Took the bonus way back in the day 2001 and 2003- was a good deal and glad I did. Got the retirement but now a days its a tough choice- different landscape.... If you sign up you may miss out on the rumored 'hiring boom' but if you stay in you might get those 6-12 month 'all expense paid good deals'... Personal choice....
06-03-2013, 02:31 PM
#83
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2011
Posts: 122
Originally Posted by Hilltopper89
I generally agree with most here, especially
I've been saying it for years: the AF should institute a 15 year commitment post UPT. This would not solve the angst but would guarantee retention in critical 11XX fields. I think the 10 year commitment (mine was 8) did much to force new majors with 8'ish years left into staying. A 12-15 year commitment would guarantee it (assuming no change in retirement benefits). As was stated earlier: the new Lts won't bat an eye at signing away that much time to get to fly jets. I wouldn't have.
I've been saying it for years: the AF should institute a 15 year commitment post UPT. This would not solve the angst but would guarantee retention in critical 11XX fields. I think the 10 year commitment (mine was 8) did much to force new majors with 8'ish years left into staying. A 12-15 year commitment would guarantee it (assuming no change in retirement benefits). As was stated earlier: the new Lts won't bat an eye at signing away that much time to get to fly jets. I wouldn't have.
While I think you're accurate that Lts won't bat an eye, I don't think it's the right thing to do as it just gives AFPC a blank check to do whatever the hell they want with their pilot force.
Maybe a good idea for big AF, but not a good idea for Airmen.
06-03-2013, 05:21 PM
#84
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2009
Position: Lowest Pay I Could Find
Posts: 1,044
Originally Posted by Billy Pilgrim
I couldn't disagree with you more. RAND calls the eight and ten year commitments an extraordinary option (Fighter Drawdown Dynamics MG855- it's an interesting read).
While I think you're accurate that Lts won't bat an eye, I don't think it's the right thing to do as it just gives AFPC a blank check to do whatever the hell they want with their pilot force.
Maybe a good idea for big AF, but not a good idea for Airmen.
While I think you're accurate that Lts won't bat an eye, I don't think it's the right thing to do as it just gives AFPC a blank check to do whatever the hell they want with their pilot force.
Maybe a good idea for big AF, but not a good idea for Airmen.
06-03-2013, 07:52 PM
#85
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2011
Position: Pressing On
Posts: 524
The problem is the Flag and General Officers who make these decisions can't grasp why anybody wouldn't want to follow their path to Stars. Everybody should stay around and be damn happy they are getting anything, and then be damn happy if they get bumped out at 15! They all stayed in and took all the DC jobs, the schools, did JPME and Masters on their frequent nonflying tours, cultivated multiple mentors, were slightly ahead of or took the first bonus because they were staying in anyway, and look down their noses at somebody who isn't with that program. They are to a man and woman some of the smartest people I have ever met. They are only to a lesser extent surrounded my an Amen Chorus of like minded 0-4's, 0-5s, and 0-6s. Nobody in the inner ring or Memphis or San Antonio ever dares say things like maybe he/she is serving the Nation better in a cockpit, or what is the fixed cost of training a pilot to be an expert in their airplane then letting those skills erode for 5-8 years? Knee jerk reactions, the last trend of the business world, and politically driven manpower initiatives have to be put out by those mentioned above because they are not only all in, they were all in years ago with no currency but what remains of their bonus. Probably driving it. No coincidence BMW and Bonus start with B. As does Boat, Baby, and Babes...
The nation needs great leaders to stay in and keep up that climb to the top and doing that 15lb brain and 180 minute meeting stuff. It also needs some airline pilots. Your are not a brownnoser if you stay or a dirtbag if you leave. Just make sure when you get to decision points you know and can access your options. I took the bonus several times but negotiated my next assignment and had it in writing before signing the dotted line. When they balked at times on my insistence on staying in a cockpit I was ready to go with money in the bank and an ATP, FE written, FCC, a Class 1, and mama in the information loop. As a wise squadron mate told me once, "Always be ready to punch". And when they absolutely, positively said no more flying we are serious I said thanks for a great ride.
The nation needs great leaders to stay in and keep up that climb to the top and doing that 15lb brain and 180 minute meeting stuff. It also needs some airline pilots. Your are not a brownnoser if you stay or a dirtbag if you leave. Just make sure when you get to decision points you know and can access your options. I took the bonus several times but negotiated my next assignment and had it in writing before signing the dotted line. When they balked at times on my insistence on staying in a cockpit I was ready to go with money in the bank and an ATP, FE written, FCC, a Class 1, and mama in the information loop. As a wise squadron mate told me once, "Always be ready to punch". And when they absolutely, positively said no more flying we are serious I said thanks for a great ride.
06-03-2013, 08:54 PM
#86
On Reserve
Joined APC: Jun 2013
Position: Right Seat
Posts: 24
Originally Posted by Dragon7
As a wise squadron mate told me once, "Always be ready to punch".
06-03-2013, 10:26 PM
#87
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2012
Position: 737
Posts: 1,061
Originally Posted by Flamer
Correct, it equates to treating the symptom rather than the disease. You have a fighter pilot retention problem. You pay good money to pay people to do an amazing job for 10 years and they don't want to stay after that. Most people would give their left nut to do the job for a week, so I would say there is something seriously broken. So, yeah, let's just keep these jaded pilots on for another ten years. Talk about pulling up the ladder. Trick the youngsters before they are old enough to know any better. What a horrible idea. And rand agrees. Fix the disease.
06-04-2013, 07:00 AM
#88
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2006
Position: 737 FO
Posts: 466
Originally Posted by Hilltopper89
I didn't say it was a terrific idea for the individual. Since when has Big Blue made decisions based on what's good for airmen? They make decisions that fix problems. I'll be surprised if it doesn't go up again...soon.
06-04-2013, 07:16 AM
#89
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Position: C130
Posts: 303
Historical reference is not the way everyone needs to base all these career decisions...I'm sure the fighter guys who "scored" UAV's thought there was no way that could happen...so what to do?
Make sure the discontent is sourced to the correct place and then do what is best for you and your family. It might not always be fun but may pay the bills. Your family might need you around more...money not that big a deal. Then it's time to move on...whatever it is don't look behind you and say well this is what is going to happen. If you do that then I've got some good stock picks for you.
Make sure the discontent is sourced to the correct place and then do what is best for you and your family. It might not always be fun but may pay the bills. Your family might need you around more...money not that big a deal. Then it's time to move on...whatever it is don't look behind you and say well this is what is going to happen. If you do that then I've got some good stock picks for you.
06-04-2013, 07:18 AM
#90
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 39,275
Originally Posted by Dragon7
The problem is the Flag and General Officers who make these decisions can't grasp why anybody wouldn't want to follow their path to Stars. Everybody should stay around and be damn happy they are getting anything, and then be damn happy if they get bumped out at 15! They all stayed in and took all the DC jobs, the schools, did JPME and Masters on their frequent nonflying tours, cultivated multiple mentors, were slightly ahead of or took the first bonus because they were staying in anyway, and look down their noses at somebody who isn't with that program. They are to a man and woman some of the smartest people I have ever met. They are only to a lesser extent surrounded my an Amen Chorus of like minded 0-4's, 0-5s, and 0-6s. Nobody in the inner ring or Memphis or San Antonio ever dares say things like maybe he/she is serving the Nation better in a cockpit, or what is the fixed cost of training a pilot to be an expert in their airplane then letting those skills erode for 5-8 years? Knee jerk reactions, the last trend of the business world, and politically driven manpower initiatives have to be put out by those mentioned above because they are not only all in, they were all in years ago with no currency but what remains of their bonus. Probably driving it. No coincidence BMW and Bonus start with B. As does Boat, Baby, and Babes...
The nation needs great leaders to stay in and keep up that climb to the top and doing that 15lb brain and 180 minute meeting stuff. It also needs some airline pilots. Your are not a brownnoser if you stay or a dirtbag if you leave.
The nation needs great leaders to stay in and keep up that climb to the top and doing that 15lb brain and 180 minute meeting stuff. It also needs some airline pilots. Your are not a brownnoser if you stay or a dirtbag if you leave.
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