SmilinJack

Hello all,
I'm fixing to start a career in flying. I am unsure whether or not flying for the military is a good idea at this point whether its Airforce,Marines,Navy or ANG. I grew up wanting to be a fighter pilot, it has always been a lifelong goal of mine. I was heavily influenced by my grandfather who flew F-9's in the Navy during Korea. I am about to graduate college with a 3.5 gpa, I have around 300 hours with a CFI, II, and MEI, and no pinkslips or anything like that. I don't think I will have a problem with flight training if I get accepted, Im just not sure if its a good idea considering the pilot shortage that is fixing to start up with the airlines.
I guess what I am asking is, what the best course of action would be. My instructor is ex-airforce and tells me that going ANG up in Wyoming would be his first choice. I am extremely afraid of getting in and getting stuck on a UAV or something of that nature, and missing out on the hiring boom.
Any advise would be greatly appreciated
Thanks, Joe

hawgdriver

Go guard/reserve and pursue regionals.

RBI73

Agreed. preferably get on with a regional before starting UPT, but that might take a few years.

Snarge

Dude answered his own question.... skip the MIL.

kingairip

You want to be an airline pilot. Go be an airline pilot. AF requires 10+ years after wings (which take a year to get.) Navy is almost as bad. Go flight instruct somewhere. You'll be at a major five years before a guy who joins the military the same year you graduate college.

Adlerdriver

Hey Joe,
Welcome to APC. Based on your post, some of your goals appear to be at odds with each other. My post got a little longer than I meant. My main point is that becoming a military pilot isn’t a fast track to an airline job. Some military routes are faster than others as I’ll elaborate on below.

The overall feel of your post is that you want to fly for an airline (talking hiring boom). So, it sounds like you want to know if a position as a military pilot can be a stepping stone to that end. In general, I would say that's not the best motivation to become a military pilot and officer, especially if you go active duty. It will be very difficult for you to sacrifice what is necessary to excel in the military if your only reason for being there is to jump to an airline job when you can.

You also mentioned wanting to be a fighter pilot. That is ABSOLUTELY NOT the way to go if you want to get an airline job anytime soon. That's not to say you can't become an airline pilot after flying fighters, but I and most of my peers didn't begin flying fighters to get into the airlines. Again, it's a very tough road to take if all you want to do is eventually fly an airliner. The only realistic way to get into an airliner after flying fighters would be to go active duty and spend the bulk of your 10 year pilot commitment flying. In a good year you'll probably get 300 hours. Bad years maybe closer to 200. Overall, you could expect to be eligible to get off active duty with about 2000 hours of PIC turbine (plus/minus a few hundred one way or the other) and about the same in total military time. Assuming you're 22 now and start UPT in the next couple of years, you'll be trying for an airline job around 2025-ish. As one example, I started AF pilot training in Mar 1988 and was hired at my first major airline in May 1999 with total time just under 2000, most of it PIC multi turbine.

Flying heavies active duty will get you plenty of hours but you'll still be on active duty for the 10 year commitment after getting your wings. So, roughly 11-12 years from now at the earliest.

Flying fighters in the Guard presents a similar problem as far as getting your hours. You may be available to an airline sooner if you become a part time traditional guardsman (after spending a few years as a full time pilot for training and your "seasoning" years). The problem is at ~250 hours per year, you won't meet the mins for an airline and as a part timer, you'll be logging them even slower. Staying on as a full timer may be an option depending on your Guard unit but you'll still be years away from meeting the mins.

Militarily, the only option that might allow you to get in on the hiring that's starting now would be to fly cargo or tankers in the Guard. You still need to have a desire to serve and a better reason than just getting an airline job. You unit is likely to get activated to active duty for combat or contingency operations sometime in your career. That will mean leaving your cushy airline job and family for a potentially significant time period.

If you go that route, figure on a couple of years to get through all the training and be back at your unit as a co-pilot. Upgrading to aircraft commander (so you can log PIC time) will depend on the unit. As a former fighter guy, I don't have much info on the "normal" timeline for a new guy to become an AC. My guess would be at least 2-3 years just to be conservative. Once you get to be an AC, I'd guess another 1-2 years of full time flying to get some competitive flight hours to apply to an airline. From the start of pilot training until you could apply to an airline, that's probably 5 years at absolute best with 7-8 years being more likely. I think it would probably take you 6 months to a year to "rush" your guard unit, interview and get hired, go to Officer Training School (called AMS in the Guard) and begin UPT. If you started the whole process tomorrow, you may be able to apply at an airline with basic hiring minimum sometime in the ballpark of 2020 at the earliest.

It sounds like your IP is giving some pretty good advice. If you’re local in Wyoming and want to stay there, the C-130 unit there is probably a good option. IF they’re hiring and IF you can get hired. As someone else mentioned, you may be able to get a regional airline job before you start with your Guard unit. If you had that job in addition to being a Guardsman, you may get your PIC hours a little quicker depending on how quickly you can get into the left seat at the regional.

In my opinion, if you want to be an airline pilot, having a guard job while you pursue that goal is the only way to go. Whether you join the guard after being on active duty or join the guard outright, it’s an incredible valuable resource to getting an airline job. There will most likely be pilots in your unit flying for the airlines you want to get hired at. They can write your recommendations, help you with interview prep and be a tremendous source of valuable insight and info.

Finally, I’d be careful about assuming you “won’t have a problem with flight training”. Depending on the pilot, some prior civilian time can be a positive thing during the early phases of training. As the training progresses, you’ll find it becomes less and less beneficial. Sometimes, if you’re not a flexible learner/thinker, prior civilian time can actually be detrimental. There have been plenty of CFI and CFII types that have washed out of UPT. There are quite a few threads on APC with some various opinion and advice about this subject if you use the search feature.

Hopefully you’ll get a few more response to supplement or correct my info. Maybe some guys in the Wyoming unit are lurking around.

Good luck.
AD

galaxy flyer

As usual, Adlerdriver, said it well. If you want to be a military pilot, by all means join; if it's only to be an airline pilot-you will be frustrated and possibly not do well.

Regarding flying military heavies, his timeline is correct, possibly optimistic. I sent, as a unit DO, 8 or 9 UPT guys and gals, all but one finished since 2001. With the last 12 years, they all have 3,000 to 4,000 hours of heavy jet time, much of it AC or IP time. They're solid gold airline applicants, but the next 12 years likely won't have that kind of flying time. In more normal times, it will take 3-4 years to get the experience for AC upgrade, 1200 hours, post-UPT.


GF

crewdawg

Good words from Adlerdriver.

That number is closer to 175-200/yr (maybe 250 if you deploy), and I don't see that getting any better anytime soon. You won't be setting any speed records to airline mins. If you truly want to fly fighters, I would purse that. While pursuing that, continue to build time and try to get a regional gig before going to pilot training...the guys that did this have the best deal going. Most of them come back to Captain seats and the pay that goes with it.

Having said that, you have your whole life to fly airliners. Go fly fighters and enjoy some of the most challenging/rewarding/fun flying you can ever imagine. Also, your pay will greatly outpace the regionals.

Go Air Guard and don't look back.

Goodluck!

Gilligan13

For those who fly in the reserves and the airlines is it hard to balance both? Seems like your going to spend more time away from home trying to maintain currency in both. How many days do you have to fly in the reserves in a heavy unit? And is active duty that bad? Seems that the navy guys enjoy life more than the AF.

Toonces

Active duty is great, and Navy pilots definitely have more fun. But seriously, don't join the military if you want to fly for the airlines. You could end up flying helicopters and still have the 10 yr commitment. (Ask me how I know) You'll still get there eventually, your path will just be more checkered.