"Navy pilots always called themselves aviators. Marine and Air Force fliers were merely pilots."

--Tom Wolfe
The Right Stuff

 

Just remember.....
Attachment 1600

 

Sure you've got that quote right Tom? Marines (and Coasties) are Naval Aviators and some have a lot more traps and time at sea than I do.

 

The quote I found from the book was,"A good navy pilot was a real aviator; in the Air Force they merely had pilots and not precisely the proper stuff."

I would have to agree about the Marines, although there was a time they didn't carqual. I'm not sure Coasties EVER carqualed.

Pilot7576

 

My mistake on the source -- the quote is actually from Wolfe's lecture to the National Endowment for the Humanities. He rephrased what he said in the book.

Tom Wolfe Lecture | National Endowment for the Humanities

 

Those Coasties might not have *carrier* qual'ed - but they BOAT qual'ed

There have been times when the Marines might not have been augmenting the CVWs, but during my carrier there were always some Marine squadron augmenting the USN. Also - I don't remember if there was a time when during the training programs that all of the Strike/Fighter pipeline SNAs didn't carrier qual. What time frame were you talking about Pilot7576?

As for the Marines calling themselves pilots and not aviators - I'd have to disagree with that too - though we still usually just called ourselves Marines. Wolfe's statement in the book --- I don't know --- maybe Vietnam was different - but it wasn't true during my time.

 

USMC,

I wasn't clear in my verbiage...sna's in the strike/fighter pipeline all carrier qualed. However, there was a time (mid to late 80s) where routine deployments by Marine squadrons on the carriers were not so routine. This led to some embarassing moments for senior capt/field grade when they had to qualify again after a long layoff. Memories of one Major at nite (we called him Sparky) led to his disqual. I was shooter on Lex from 86-89 and thought I saw it all. Luckily, I was absent for the tragic T2 approach turn stall into the flight deck.

As far as marines being pilots or aviators, I consider them a subset of Naval Aviation; hence, they are aviators. I know of no coasties that ever carqualled (they may have done so in the T28) since T34 days. I consider coasties aviators as well due to their topnotch training alongside their naval aviation brethren. Up until recently, though, they worked for the Dept of Transportation and not DOD. Now they work for Homeland.

Hope this clarifies my post.

Pilot7576

 

I was always told that the Navy spends its money on ships, and what's left over on their bases.

The Air Force builds the golf courses, bowling alleys, move theaters, etc.; THEN goes to congress and says they need money for the runways and planes.

 

I'm bored, so I'll wade in here:

An ex-Navy guy giving us crap about a military service clinging to some old out of date tradition? Good God, a newly commissioned Ensign (why can't you guys just use the ranks the other three mil services use?) needs to take out a second mortgage just to buy all the various uniforms he's required to maintain.

We all know where the scarf origin began. It's not like it's out of left field. Much like the sailor's bell bottoms with useless front pockets or insisting on calling a candy bar "gedunk" - every service has a few traditions that serve little purpose. FWIW, I thought the scarves were stupid, uncomfortable and I rarely wore them. Most fighter pilots I knew opted not to wear them. The further away from Langley AFB (HQ) a fighter pilot was the less likely you were to see him sporting a scarf.

No. The crease was a temporary and completely idiotic addition spearheaded by Gen McPeak shortly after receiving his Flag Officer Lobotomy. It went away shortly after he did.

Unlike the Navy, the USAF has always considered the flight suit a uniform, which is huge, IMO. That means it's an acceptable UOD almost 100% of the time. No flight duties scheduled? You can still wear it. Going to the O-club for lunch or to knock back a few? No problem.

I can count the number of times I wore something other than a bag on 2 hands over a 22 year career. I'll take a little extra hassle to make sure it looks presentable (not ironing though) for that any day.

 

It does - thanks.
I was just after that timeframe - '89.
You get what I was referring to when I said they were BOAT qual'ed though right - NOT carrier qual'ed. Just trying to give those helos guys a pat on the back form landing on those rolling ships.
I requal'ed after a few years lay off. The 1,500 hrs+ in the airplane helped me the second time around!

So the crease did come from McPeak (USAF)?
You are right it is HUGE - the other services have not always considered the flight suit a uniform. I lived through times where you couldn't wear one through the gate (NAS Cecil/NAS Jacksonville '93-'94) for example. In later years we were finally allowed to wear them where the other Marines could wear cammies (to get gas or a diapers) on the way home from the base. Now I see them everywhere. Quite a few AF guys at 'Twin Peaks' yesterday for lunch I've heard the hooroe stories and having to CHANGE INTO a flight suit to go flying, and then CHANGE BACK OUT for the remainder of the day. YIKES!