UPT: PIC, SIC, or something else?
12-02-2015, 02:48 PM
#1
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Joined APC: Jun 2015
Posts: 16
UPT: PIC, SIC, or something else?
I've seen a couple versions of this question on the forum, but not quite an answer I can digest.
I understand my UPT time counts towards total, time and that Solo can be PIC (but who has that data 25 years later?).
But looking at my 100 hrs of T-38 and 75 hrs of T-37, what "bin" do I log those? I assume SIC, but I've seen some dissenting views on that which I don't understand.
Using MyFlightBook to capture my mil records, and if I don't give my T-38/T-37 time either a SIC, PIC, or CFI checkmark, then the time isn't added to my Total.
Thanks in advance for the clarification.
I understand my UPT time counts towards total, time and that Solo can be PIC (but who has that data 25 years later?).
But looking at my 100 hrs of T-38 and 75 hrs of T-37, what "bin" do I log those? I assume SIC, but I've seen some dissenting views on that which I don't understand.
Using MyFlightBook to capture my mil records, and if I don't give my T-38/T-37 time either a SIC, PIC, or CFI checkmark, then the time isn't added to my Total.
Thanks in advance for the clarification.
12-02-2015, 09:07 PM
#4
China Visa Applicant
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Midfield downwind
Posts: 1,920
There is no such thing a "second in command" in the T-37 or T-38 in ATC/AETC.
It is Dual or Student time, except for your solos, which are PIC.
On PilotCredentials, a couple airlines specifically say to include UPT time as SIC, but that is just how those airlines want to see it documented on their applications.
It is Dual or Student time, except for your solos, which are PIC.
On PilotCredentials, a couple airlines specifically say to include UPT time as SIC, but that is just how those airlines want to see it documented on their applications.
12-02-2015, 09:41 PM
#5
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Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: FDX 767 FO
Posts: 817
Originally Posted by Hacker15e
There is no such thing a "second in command" in the T-37 or T-38 in ATC/AETC.
In the 37/38 was there a seat that had to be occupied or could you fly solo from either seat?
I ask because in the T-34 the front seat had to be occupied. Soloing from the back seat was prohibited as the main circuit breaker panel and manual gear extension (and some other stuff) was only in the front seat.
So to play devil's advocate...if you are occupying the seat that is required but did not sign for the plane, are you SIC?
12-03-2015, 03:31 AM
#6
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Joined APC: Jun 2005
Position: 787 FO
Posts: 796
Originally Posted by Just Fly
...I understand my UPT time counts towards total, time and that Solo can be PIC (but who has that data 25 years later?).
Originally Posted by FlyBoyd
In the 37/38 was there a seat that had to be occupied or could you fly solo from either seat?
12-03-2015, 06:04 AM
#7
China Visa Applicant
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Midfield downwind
Posts: 1,920
Originally Posted by FlyBoyd
So to play devil's advocate...if you are occupying the seat that is required but did not sign for the plane, are you SIC?
If someone is occupying the seat, but not filling a defined crew role, the time is "XP - Other."
12-03-2015, 09:27 AM
#8
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Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: 767 Captain
Posts: 3,988
Originally Posted by Hacker15e
On PilotCredentials, a couple airlines specifically say to include UPT time as SIC, but that is just how those airlines want to see it documented on their applications.
Exactly. If you try to make your logbook (written or electronic) match a particular airline's policy and the FARs at the same time, you'll end up in a perpetual luff berry. Trying to incorporate USAF regs into the mix as well will probably result in some kind of space time rift.
Logbook is governed by FARs.
Flight records by military OIs.
Airline apps by airline du jour.
Don't cross the streams.
12-03-2015, 11:26 AM
#9
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Position: Not at my desk anymore.
Posts: 155
Originally Posted by Adlerdriver
^^^
Exactly. If you try to make your logbook (written or electronic) match a particular airline's policy and the FARs at the same time, you'll end up in a perpetual luff berry. Trying to incorporate USAF regs into the mix as well will probably result in some kind of space time rift.
Logbook is governed by FARs.
Flight records by military OIs.
Airline apps by airline du jour.
Don't cross the streams.
Exactly. If you try to make your logbook (written or electronic) match a particular airline's policy and the FARs at the same time, you'll end up in a perpetual luff berry. Trying to incorporate USAF regs into the mix as well will probably result in some kind of space time rift.
Logbook is governed by FARs.
Flight records by military OIs.
Airline apps by airline du jour.
Don't cross the streams.
It's enough to to make you go nuts.
12-03-2015, 12:45 PM
#10
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Joined APC: Apr 2011
Position: 757/767 FO
Posts: 127
Originally Posted by Hacker15e
I can't speak to the US Navy, but in the USAF, SIC is a very specific duty position with defined duties.
If someone is occupying the seat, but not filling a defined crew role, the time is "XP - Other."
If someone is occupying the seat, but not filling a defined crew role, the time is "XP - Other."
USAF "Secondary" time and SIC are not the same.
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