jungle

I guess the bottom line is that most of won't ever take the rap for the very bad actions of others, nor should we ever be asked to.

Eventually most of us learn that personal responsibility is key to civilization.

Federal prisons are an excellent example of total control of weapons and a high murder rate, the culture is there for anyone to see, but most of us can't see it or admit it.

AKASHA

Wow. You can't be serious. You are saying prisons are an excellent example of total control of weapons??

"Keeping up with inmate improvisation is an endless and thankless project. It seems nothing brings out the ingenuity in a person like an endless sea of days spent staring through bars and thinking about freedom."

Are you suggesting that the high murder rate in prisons is a result of hand-to-hand combat? Not weapons???

Here's an idea. Make weapons legal in prison. No more cell shakedowns. No more precautions against keeping weapon-making materials out of the hands of inmates. Better yet, just issue the weapons to inmates upon arrival. Also, give them a card that says it's okay to have them. Then what happens? The prisoners don't use the weapons, except perhaps in self-defense?

The enitre prison culture now changes because weapons are made legal. Now that so-called "total control of weapons in federal prisons" has been eliminated, murder rates drop. Is this what you are implying?

jungle

Some of us will always mistake inanimate objects as a source of evil, it is clear that evil only resides in our hearts.
If you cannot distinguish culture from inanimate objects your chances of having a good grasp of reality go way down. Holding the individual responsible for their actions is the only way to deal with the problem.
Do as you like though, I know I will.

AKASHA

Who is making inanimate objects a source of evil? Your illusion that there is "total control of weapons in federal prisons" and that results in prisons' high murder rates is utterly absurd. Do not preach on sound grasps of reality.

I don't have a problem with the constitutional right to bear arms. Nor do I take issue with the cliche "Guns don't kill people, people kill people." Certainly individuals must be held responsible for their actions.

Having said all that, there is some reason why Americans are killing each other more so than in Western Europe, Canada, Australia, Japan and other developed nations. I don't know the reason, but I have some ideas. But they are irrelevant. Okay, evil is in the heart. Yes, weapons are inanimate. So what is happening here? And why isn't it happening there?

The argument that instituting controls on the right to bear arms is the cause of America's high murder rate is ridiculous, that's all.

mike734

Well most murders are crimes of passion right? With hand guns so readily available, they get used before people have a chance to cool off. Seems like a reasonable explanation. That and our population is just plain stupid.

jungle

You have misinterpreted my argument. The effort to control weapons in federal prisons fails because of culture,and the worst kind of human behavior. Clearly laws have no effect whatsoever there, and the inmates make every effort to subvert any rules.

The reason the laws have no effect outside of prisons is again purely related to culture. A few minutes with actual crime statistics in the US would answer any questions you might have, but most of us don't really want an answer to that question. It is not any surprise that criminal culture does not honor any rule of law.

The question you really want to ask is why do we allow such a large element of criminal culture to exist? England has seen an explosion of violent crime and several of their cities now have a rate higher than any other in the west.

And yet the Swiss, some of the most heavily armed people on Earth remain quite peaceful. Culture again.

By the way, weapons are widely and legally available in Canada, Australia and many countries in Western Europe. Just a little more paperwork. Culture again.

The vast majority of violent crime in this country is commited by males between 13-25 while engaged in large scale criminal enterprise-why do they do that? Because there is a little money in it.
It is easy enough for most of us to avoid the wrong cities and the wrong areas, but the war will continue.
Just south of our own border an even bigger war is raging, guns are virtually outlawed, but there is no shortage of weapons and murder. None at all.
The culture of easy money.

AKASHA

Totally agree.

Yet, you claimed "Federal prisons are an excellent example of total control of weapons.." Consistency will go a long way in keeping your argument from being misinterpreted.

Claiming laws have no effect outside of prison is both extreme and inaccurate. However, I agree that culture plays the central role in a country's crime rate.

No, it's not. I don't believe certain cultures exist because we choose to allow it.

Not for the reason of self-defense.

This is your opinion? Organized crime is the source of the vast majority of violent crime in this country? I don't believe it. Please provide a source.

Yes! And what is the war being fought over? A piece of America's multi-billion dollar illegal drug market. Culture indeed.

jungle

You have spent a lot of time on superficial argument, but in reality we know why you would never visit certain areas of most of America's major cities.
Talk all you like.

AKASHA

It doesn't take much time to debunk your arguments.

jungle

Let us know how your vacation in Compton or downtown Detroit goes.

The most basic human right is self defense. You are rightly concerned with criminal actions. I can understand that, but I can't understand why you can't seperate the two.

I am very handy with a knife, an axe, a splitting maul, a baseball bat and various other blunt objects-but I find them awkward to carry most of the time and carrying a cop around is just too much.

My brother works for the state DAs office, a couple of the last few murders he investigated involved a hammer and a box cutter. It is all about intent and not the object used. My brother stays very busy, there is no shortage of work.