Yup. He's just another industry expert...... who isn't even part of the industry. There's a reason the fractional threads are separate from the others. Might as well listen to your proctologist for marriage counseling if you're going to take anything he has to say seriously.

He may have set a message bpard record for reaching 100 responses in the shortest amount of time.

Beginning in January the overall hiring numbers vs. attrition are going to be in the 0 to +15 area per month given the amount of CJOs that are currently held, not including the forced retirements. This isn't over.

NJASAP leadership is nothing more than a toxic, parasitic political caste that works to benefit the union leadership at the expense of destroying almost all possible leverage for the average line pilot. They keep their positions through intimidation and threats. The pilot group is too cowardly to do anything about them, instead relying on bullying and personal insults (as shown above) to defend their corrupted and toxic leadership.

Also quick to circle the wagons and counter accuse if anyone has a different viewpoint than them.

Surround themselves with yes people that they have no problem selling them out when it comes to that.

It's sad because a lot of these volunteers are good people but they have no idea the history behind the people in charge. Lots of them being used as the canary in the coal mine.

Yea, and you guys are the industry experts? Picketing Las Vegas F1? I am sure that is bringing management right to its knees...

It isn't surprising. They have nothing to support their feelings. Their position isn't even based on factual or tangible evidence, it's literally a feeling they choose to have. Hell, look at how many NJA pilots posting in here can't even fathom the concept of being pro-union while being against the road NJASAP has taken them down. The unwavering support for the union leadership right now is actually astonishing and saying anything critical against NJASAP or the union leadership is met with "pro-management" and "union buster" retorts. I think it is fascinating as a former employee...

It would have been nice if we hadn't spent last year saying "now is not the time" and arguing about a building we don't need.

From my experience a NJA pilot can't be critical of NJASAP leadership and expect to ever be a union volunteer (even a non-political position), IOE instructor, NRFO or check airman. Usually it is the "previous" employees that speak up because those still on the payroll may harm their career, even if they offer constructive and valid criticism.

What it illustrates is no available leverage to the pilot group. IBB '20 and that LOA last December have repeatedly shown NJASAP doesn’t know how to play the long game. I'll give an example. For 17 years NJA wouldn't budge on HBA's for everyone. Then out of the blue NJA agrees to it. Why, recruiting is why. The union signs that LOA in December and now is trying to publicly shame people into not picking up extended days. What about the pilots getting shown the door on January 10th?
.

Hmmmm
 

Yeah...whatever happened to that building? I guess we are spending even more union dollars to renovate an old building to have a really NICE place to serve that BBQ dinner.

Meanwhile, in Vegas, DRINKS AND DINNER on pilot union money!!! YEAH!

FACTS!

And the fact the ML made a post like that then said "debate away" when he constants shouts down other members trying to make comments is absolutely mind boggling.

BTW....what's the score of the baseball game??

Sounds like a fantastic and very topical tactic to get the pilot group to fight amongst themselves so they don't focus on the union's shortcomings.

I disagreed at the time and still disagree with the decision to make 2.5 VED permanent. That choice cost the group a lot of leverage in my view despite the claim "show me how the extenders now wouldn't have extended at 1.5 if we hadn't signed the loa." Impossible to prove. But human nature would seem to indicate that at least SOME of the current extenders wouldn't extend at 1.5 and this is a game of 1000 cuts, right?

I've had my disagreements with union leadership's decisions on a number of issues now and in the past and made no bones about it. But I still support the effort to secure a new contract in every way I can, including carrying a sign for three days running. The notion that a new slate of "leaders" to replace the current E-Board is a good idea can only be chalked up to hubris, ignorance, or stooges trying to help the company secure a concessionary contract (usually the latter.)

As for the Age 70 MRA, the union filed the grievance, argued it to the best of their ability, and fulfilled their DFR. The grievance is going to fail despite those efforts. In a weird way, the departing pilots' sacrifice will actually help the group by adding another cut that draws the company closer to empty cockpits and parked metal because of this management team's incompetence.

I think the Arbitrator is going to uphold the removal of the pilots but force the company and union to negotiate a severance package. By the Arbitrator ordering it, the union can't be sued for age discrimination and it will circumvent that law. We shall see.

Arbitrators either uphold a grievance or deny it. I don't see a "split the baby" type of ruling.

Wrong.

Im a volunteer and have respectfully disagreed with union management on a few things. You write of things you know nothing about.

And once again...ignorant post.

In what way is NJASAP leadership "parasitic", working "to benefit the union leadership"? For everything this "parasitic" group does to the union (normal pilots) they too have to live by. You make these grandiose statements, show us some examples.

As far as "Cowardly", that is the description of a guy afraid to post on our own message board b/c his name will be seen. Instead he comes here under "antipeter" spewing disinformation.
Case in point, You look back 11 mos with 20/20 hindsight and say we made a bad decision... Congrats, you're super brave.

Why do I get the impression you weren't so brave 11 mos ago with your foresight?

I love it when guys in the cheap seats complain about decisions made by guys in the arena... like they would of done something different. If your so brave, throw your hat in the ring. Let's see how you do. Keep in mind people would have to know your name, Braveheart.

Unfortunately "gaslighting" will not lead to an improved CBA.

Only Section Six will.

Has there been any indication the current efforts are doing anything benifitial?

None....zero...zilch...nada....

A COMPLETE waste of time and money and resources!

How dare you! The Cobra team got to watch a couple F1 races so it wasn’t a complete waste of time.

and now these idiots are complaining about selloffs. The intellectual level of these mb residents "business management specialists" is astonishing. After screaming, insulting, bullying and threathening their colleagues to stop VEDs, they are surprised that the company is increasing its use of selloffs again. Did these people even finish high school?

aaaaah yes....the "cobra team"..... you are correct Sir. They got to watch some F1 races and have a union dues paid for meal and drinks.

Meanwhile, back at the ranch......... ML continues to propose items to "debate away" and no agreement is reached other than his ideas seem to drive a wedge deeper and deeper into the membership.

I need to get back to work and see if my cupcakes have arrived to celebrate my birthday. (Another entertaining thread, if you havent read it yet...)

Perhaps someone will write up another post about how they are leaving to greener pastures (AA) and how they were lied to and were fed empty promises by the company at their hiring symposium.

How about just leave. NO ONE CARES!! They will fill your job by friday.

The company had two of the biggest days it's ever had in it's history.

It was done with minimal selloff's and delays.

The union isn't steering the ship anymore like it used to.

This loss of control will make people do and say stupid things history has proven.

If you haven’t figured it out yet minrest doesn’t even work at NJ. Hasn’t for years but he still comes back here. Maybe he can give you a referral at his shop if you want.

You’re more obsessed with me on APC than getting a real competitive contract. It’s fun to watch so many miss the forest through the trees…

Not sure why you say that. You were unhappy and left, he seems unhappy too. Thought you would like to help a brother out.
And if anyone is obsessed with something it is you coming back here so much and saying the same thing over and over. That’s obsessive.

Bunch of former employees post in here, yet you ONLY talk about me and quote me. Who’s obsessed again?

Sure they do. I don’t think a majority of them come back to “laugh at” your words the pilot group. The reason I quote you is because it comes off that you have great joy in watching a group of your former employees that are suffering. Kinda sick if you ask me. But what ever..I’m guessing you will have something to say.

Well if you’d head back a couple pages, you’d see several former employees trashing the state of the company and blaming people like you. Sounds like you’re just simply out to lunch on all of this huh?

Just what I thought. You can’t help yourself but comment. Whatever makes you feel better.

True that, it's so obvious now. Hopefully these don't end up regretting the approx 35% wage increase, FDP increase, 401K increase we were offered when 2029 comes. That's a lot of money left on the table for the next 5 years. But we want to work 10 hours days max, 13 days a month. Interesting how the loudest ones, the ones who are calling for job actions and ready to hold are on Year 18+ pay ad pretty comfortable financially. Always. The union has lost control of its useful soap box group and is catering its demands to very specific, becoming a minority, segment of the pilot group. Ain't going to work much longer.

It's using that soapbox to attack the boss days after his best friend/owner dies.

You can't tell me the timing of the ad was just coincidence.

You guys decide....

Company 11‐9‐2023 Proposal

1. Section 27

• Base Wage Increases:

o 23% on Dec. 21, 2023

o 6% on Dec. 21, 2024

o 4% on Dec. 21, 2025

o 4% on Dec. 21, 2026

o 4% on Dec. 21, 2027

o 4% on Dec. 21, 2028

• Wage Scale adjusted to 14 years for all fleets and ranks.

• Tour‐Based Flight Pay Rate Increases:

o $190 effective DOR

o $200 effective January 1, 2024

o $202 effective January 1, 2025

o $204 effective January 1, 2026

o $206 effective January 1, 2027

o $208 effective January 1, 2028

o $210 effective January 1, 2029

o 2% annual increase each year beginning January 1, 2030

• NFAD Category Additions and Rate Increase:

o NFAD hourly rate of $50.00 increases to $51.00 effective January 1, 2024.

o New Beginning‐of‐Day NFAD category as previously proposed 9‐19‐2023.

o New “Flight Asset Duty 1+ Hour” NFAD category as proposed 10‐5‐2023—applicable

to hours of Flight Asset Duty greater than 1 hour in a duty day and paid at the NFAD

rate multiplied by .33. Subject to following rules:

 If a crewmember is briefed for a Flight Assignment under subsection

28.3(A)(1) or a Travel Duty assignment the crewmember must complete the

Flight Assignment or Travel Duty assignment.

 A crewmember must be available for duty the entire duty period.

o New “Hotel 5+ Hour Reserve Duty” NFAD category as proposed 10‐5‐2023—

applicable to hours of Reserve Duty at hotel greater than 5 hours in a duty day and

paid at the NFAD rate multiplied by .2. Subject to the following rules:

 If a crewmember is briefed for a Flight Assignment under subsection

28.3(A)(1) or a Travel Duty assignment the crewmember must complete the

Flight Assignment or Travel Duty assignment.

 A crewmember must be available for duty the entire duty period.

o Per 27.2(I), when more than one NFAD category is applicable, the crewmember shall

receive the greater of the types—but not more than one type of NFAD for the same

period.

• SDP Compensation as previously proposed to include:

o increased base premium of $20k up to $26k depending on schedule type.

o additional Tour‐Based Flight Pay factor for hours in a tour in excess of 10 Flight

Hours of $50 for CA and $75 for EA‐Do flat fee per check ride of $500 or $750 per check ride when an EA‐D completes a

check on a CA.

2. One Time Compensation Bonus

• Upon ratification, each crewmember to receive a gross payment equal to the greater of the

following two options:

o $15,000.00

o $150.00 per Month of Seniority, capped at $30,000.00.

3. Section 28

• 28.3(A)(1)(a)—all flight duty start times modified to 60 minutes.

• 28.3(A)(1)(b)—all flight duty end times modified to 30 minutes.

• 28.5(F)(1)—Company proposed duty shut off rule for Unscheduled Rest Periods:

o Unless otherwise provided for in the Agreement, a crewmember who requests an

Unscheduled Rest Period pursuant to this subsection may elect, but will not be

required, to remain on duty if the request is made after completing twelve (12)

hours of duty.

Unless otherwise provided for in the Agreement, a crewmember who requests an

Unscheduled Rest Period pursuant to this subsection prior to completing twelve

(12) hours of duty may elect, but will not be required, to perform more than twelve

hours of duty.

• Any other items as previously proposed on 9‐19‐2023.

4. Section 19

• CC 52 schedule remains as is in current book.

• 19.4(B)—days off after Transition, Initial New Equipment, and Requalification Training

changes to a minimum of 7 days.

• No Seam Tour Adjustment Program.

• Any other items as previously proposed on 9‐19‐2023.

5. Section 30

• Contract term that runs through Dec. 21, 2029.

• No options to extend the term beyond Dec. 21, 2029.

• EFPP eliminated.

• Any other items as previously proposed on 4‐21‐2023.

6.Section 6

• 6.8(A)—Conflate TR Captain position into one CA SDP. Establish Evaluator Aircraft Delegate

(EA‐D) SDP.

• EA‐D position will first be offered to current CA in seniority order—holding the position

subject to successful completion of any FAA required training/evaluation. Any remaining

EA‐D vacancies shall be filled pursuant to 6.8(B).

• As part of implementation of the elimination of the TR Captain position, Current TR Captains

will be offered CA positions—holding the CA position is subject to successful completion of

any FAA required training/evaluations.• 6.6 Retreat Rights—remove ability to retreat during IOE.

• Any other items as previously proposed on 4‐21‐2023.

7.Section 15

• Section 15.7 New Fleets—Company to conduct seniority‐based bid within 180 days of first

New Fleet Aircraft being placed on Company operating certificate or upon placement of the

7th New Fleet Aircraft on certificate—whichever occurs first.

• Sections 15.6— Company will release equipment locks prior to filling vacancies under 15.6

through involuntary assignment or with a new crewmember. However, any equipment

locked crewmember awarded a First Officer vacancy in another fleet is subject to the greater

of their remaining existing equipment lock or a new 24‐month equipment lock—and the

crewmember may not upgrade in‐fleet or in another fleet until the lock expires.

8.Section 4

• Eliminate NRFO SDP position.

• Modify NRFO related manuals, eliminate certain NRFOs, recategorize remaining NRFOs into

two groups: Group 1 any crewmember off IOE can complete; and Group 2 both

crewmembers must be NRFO trained and have one year in the fleet.

• A crewmember who completes (i.e., the crewmember must remain available for duty for the

entire NRFO assignment) a NRFO assignment will be guaranteed a Flight Hour Credit per LOA

27‐010. If the crewmember flies during the same duty day and his Flight Hours as described

in 27.2(G) for the duty day exceed the Flight Hour credit, then his Flight Hours calculated as

described in 27.2(G) will be used instead of the Flight Hour credit.

• Company may use OEM pilots or OEM contract pilots for NRFO flights.

• The parties to agree on transition through implementation letter.

9. Section 10

• No change to current book PTO accrual rates, except for new 7‐day advance accrual for new

hires.

• No change to current book PTO usage rates.

• No change to current book personal day bidding limits for Peak Season (5%) and Non‐Peak

Season (10%).

• No change to current book cash out rates for Overflow PTO Days in subsection 10.6(B).

• Retirement/Resignation cash out limited to Active Bank Days only (no Overflow or Long‐

Term).

• Any other items as proposed on 4‐21‐2023.

10.Section 16

• New Parental Leave Policy:

o Up to 6 months of time off for pregnant crewmember (in addition to applicable

medical leave), and to include two weeks of paid time.

o Up to 3 months for crewmember whose spouse or domestic partner gives birth

or a crewmember who adopts, and to include two weeks of paid time.

• No change to 3‐year limit for LTD/Loss of Medical.

• No expansion of Medical Leave of Absence provisions in subsection 16.3(A).• Any other items as proposed 4‐21‐2023.

11.Section 20

• Crew Meal LOA 20‐002 to be executed as part of TA.

• No change to current book rates for Meal Allowance or Crew Meal Deviations.

• Any other items as proposed on 4‐21‐2023.

12.Section 24

• No change to current book subsection 24.3(A) life insurance coverage amount.

• No change to lesser of 60% or $5,000 per month for LTD/Loss of Medical Benefit.

• No change to current book subsection 24.7(B) regarding Company payment of medical

expenses and incidentals.

• No change to current book severance payment rate or other current book language in

subsection 24.15(C).

• No Worker’s Compensation and Disability Benefits provision.

• Benefits Committee not added to Section 17 committees.

• Any other items as proposed on 4‐21‐2023.

13.Section 29

• Company 401(k) Matching Contributions increased as follows:

o 60% effective January 1, 2023 (current book)

o 65% effective January 1, 2024

o 66% effective January 1, 2025

o 67% effective January 1, 2026

o 68% effective January 1, 2027

o 69% effective January 1, 2028

o 70% effective January 1, 2029

• No addition of any type of defined/direct contribution program.

• Any other items proposed on 4‐21‐2023.

14.Remaining Sections/Items:

• Section 9—as previously agreed.

• Section 13—as previously agreed.

• Section 14—as previously agreed.

The following should be in bold:

EFPP
NRFO changes
Signing bonus.

If a pilot on property for less than a year gets $15,000, then a 15 year plus pilot gets $60,000.

So this is your first ever post and you have this detail of the “proposal”? Kinda sus

It is important for everyone to know the truth of what the EB rejected, and how the pilot group could be benefiting from this proposal.

You do know this was emailed out from the union and is available for anyone to see right? Not sure how you think they are hiding the truth.

Do you see the benefits that proposal has outweighing the concessions it ask for as a good idea?

That's 100% good for me. EFPP is useless. NRFO changes and signing bonus are very good.

What should be in bold is that this would be for now until 2026-2029. Why not take the personal quality of life increase for the same period that our contract is valid and fight again, under legal allowed conditions (section 6) in 2026-2029??