Last Last Best Final or Last Best Final Final
 

Well, today is the day………. Counting down impatiently.

Will this be a last last best final or a last best final final??

I thought I would get ahead of it and start a new thread for it.

Certainly no “best about it. I’m sure in the company’s minds it will be Last Last Final Final…until it’s not and they’re really ready to negotiate.

Meh...

Nothing is going to happen unless and until there's a total meltdown this holiday season.

Quite frankly, I just don't much give a damn.

So what was the amazing offer. Delta plus 4000%? Better popcorn at Christmas, what? What? WHAT?

Thats a joke
 

So are we in a complete Pi$$ing match? This offer was worse than before.

Screw this. I’ll take what we got and request better popcorn……and I want TWO puzzles this year instead of one!!!

I don't know. In my book popcorn doesn't get much better than that greasy stuff from Garrett. I'm puzzled as to why you think they're going to send anything out this year though. NJA management hates every labor group and employee they have and proves it time and time again. If more than a Christmas card shows up with three EMT faces on it, I'll be pleasantly surprised and return to sender immediately.

I would call "Chairman" Johnson a Johnson but that would be an insult to my Johnson.

Pretty lame counter-offer but definitely a pi$$ing match, their version of "regressive", the +1% over the last 20% is definitely a joke, and removing the CC52, tremoving days off after training, it's definitely an answer to our last amp'd offer, more points to renegotiate, more stuff to fight and argue about. Especially when 12 hours later we make a $30B purchase option on some more Slowtations.

Removing the CC52? Serious? That alone would make me quit (if I hadn't already).

This offer is actually worse than the first. I hope it serves to push even more fence-sitters into the outstretched, waiting arms of Delta, SWA, AA, and United.

10 resigned today alone.

It happens. This is their first time in a labor strife and they have never seen it.

Give it time the airlines will be through the same thing at some point and you’ll have a ton of pilots shocked that life is hard.

Bye Bye
 

Oh I hope they were senior to me!!!

Truth!!
 

WAIT WAIT….are you saying 121 has issues? Are you saying 121 isn’t the MOST perfect job in the WORLD??? Are you saying 121 will probably furlough in the future?? (Insert extreme sarcasm)

Labor strife? This isn't a labor strife. This is management acting like a tired 2 year old. If every LCC and legacy carrier put every Netjets pilot who applied in class tomorrow, half the seniority list would resign today.

Wow, almost one for every day you extended last month, which was 11.

11 extended days impressive.

11 extended days would be QUITE a NetJets hangover….. i cant even imagine that!!

Where did you see that?

I believe that we will keep loosing most of the post-covid hires demographic who will make 90% of the departing.

That's a lot of extra money going to the union, helping the fight, all those weekend team building diners and all. Thanks for the effort and the extra funding.

Hopefully we all start working hard in 2024 so that we can benefit from that elusive profit sharing in 2025. ha ha ha

Pipe down JL, The adults are talking. Those 10 left because you're working 11 days extra a month.

Don’t 8 out of 10 pilots work 11 days extra a month?

The poor economy/business management education level, from the appearing-to-be quiet desperate MB group, is astonishing. to think that stopping VAWD/VED will deliver a CBA. As if netjets' owners won't fly on those days. As if operational costs and "accidental" operational costs are not tax write off items. Explains why most of us are just plane drivers and not running successful enterprises, even if we spend our afternoons watching Fox Business before switching back to Tucker.

The other very interesting observation of the level of desperation from a population that was not, and is not, hirable elsewhere, is how short sighted they are in their intent to publicly shame and attack those who pick VAWD, their will to divide the pilot group long term, thinking that they can mend those divide when needed, their illusion that they will win the next vote thanks to the vote of those they have been insulting for the past 6 months is laughable. Their decision to win votes and support by instigating fear onto those that disagree relates to the intellectual level of these well published men on the MB.
Seeing the suggestions to attack Mr. Buffet and Munger represented the best portrait of these lunatics.

I thought dangerous flying, poor training, severe attrition and poor hiring results would solve the problem in the next 2-3 months and help a company negotiate when it doesn't need to? Now, it's all the VAWD's fault? :D

I thought we were in it for the long term, thought "we are patient", but it appears anger and desperation is growing so fast that some are loosing focus. after trying to sacrifice their youth on the hostel of "its for the cause, shut up", they are now choosing to go hunt for those within their ranks who disagree. Very interesting. Dividing the group further is definitely working. I can only imagine the litigation stories that can pop up from this.

That’s the constant fallback. Shout down the members and when the Negotiating committee is useless, attack VAWDs (which was extended by the union membership..)

Maybe it’s time for new leadership. Clearly nothing getting down currently.

You think Netjets can sustain the operation without all those pilots plugging the holes? That's cute.

Why do you think they are offering up so many? My fleet alone showed 29 of 31 days available to be picked up in October. Yeah, I'm sure things would be hunky dory if no one picked up those days...... We have only ourselves to blame, and especially those like JL (who is such a coward that he only hides on this forum now) that are actively helping to maintain the status quo.

It’s nothing new from JL either. He’s been self serving ever since I first heard of him when I was a new hire (his reputation preceded him). He floats back here with multiple usernames to wreak havoc when he gets embarrassed off the NJASAP forum. The cycle repeats and repeats with him. He hopes the airlines all collapse while he works 26 days a month then comes on here to pretend to be on the pilots side of the negotiation table.
Most selfish pilots at least own it. He pretends to be something he’s not while everyone can see right through it.

It’s one thing to pick up some VAWDs here and there but if anyone thinks that VAWDs aren’t a bandaid to save management from their lack of proper staffing and scheduling, you’re crazier than JL is.

LOL. Missed again. I’m not a pro management guy 100%. I’m not a pro union guy 100%. I think you’re both crazy.

Seems to me like the union is looking for scapegoats to blame since they’ve failed to generate the leverage necessary to get this deal over the finish line.

The blame game is alive and well at NJASAP. Let’s blame the extenders. Oooooohhhkay.

“Death by 1000 cuts” actually translates to “we don’t know what to do so do anything”. I’ve seen better hit accuracy in Battleship the game.

You all had better figure this out or there simply won’t be a NetJets to worry about.

JL is hiding under your bed.

This is all speculation, you have absolutely zero data and proof that VAWD help maintain the status quo.Pure speculation from some looking for more crap because things are going nowhere. I can never pick some of those, they have never fell on my schedules, so it's not like it's a vital necessary tool to the company. They help us, flying more than just staying in FBO when subs are carrying the lift. VAWDs are easily replaceable by subs, why do you think they dedicate a full department to that now.

exactly............

I totally agree. "we don't know what to do so do anything and let's go witches of Salem mode on those that are extending because some zero brain guy told us extending benefited the company only. And same goes for everything else.


It tells a lot that most of the angry snowflakes on the MB cannot comprehend that a pretty important part of the group falls under what you wrote: "I’m not a pro management guy 100%. I’m not a pro union guy 100%. I think you’re both crazy."

And when your lynch party turns enough people off.

What then? “I told you so” won’t pay the bills either.

Luthi said he needed October. Many of us did.

Attrition will continue to drive the most leverage I’ve seen in this contract debate.

Y’all need to realize that they are covering the schedule with Selloffs and 70% aircraft availability months out. The VEDs and VAWDs are there for added reliability but they could eliminate them tomorrow.

Question: What happens when corporate eliminates an expense like VEDs and VAWDs from pilots who won’t take them? They get a bonus.

So, to be clear, you’re advocating the Bobo and AJ get a bonus by eliminating VAWDs and VEDs by saving money? Conversely, if pilots take VAWDs and VEDs and save Selloff money, Bobo and AJ get a bonus by saving Selloff money.

They get a bonus either way. And you’re mad at pilots…. Got it.

Basically, you’re screaming from a Part 121 bargaining playbook and it’s painful to watch. I get it. “We’re at war” is what I’ve heard from several in leadership.

Stop fighting like the British red coats is what I’d ask.

Generate some real leverage and do the job better.

And what leverage exactly can the Union generate when you (and others like you) keep actively working against that leverage? You even started a pledge about not extending until a deal was done. When was that again? Oh yeah, like 2 months ago. Yet you’re right back to your usual selling your life for a cheap 60% of what you could be making instead. You really are a piece of work. Go back to hiding under beds.
Your reputation here is already in the gutter.

Oh, and an important point to make. NJASAP does NOT need to blame anyone. The pilot group is smart enough to know exactly who to blame already: Weak members like yourself who can’t endure a tiny dose of short term pain for long term gain.

So do you think a vawd is equal to a sub as far as cost to the company?

Cute, isn’t it? I also didn’t realize that I spent my days off sitting at FBOs, according to him.

Someone made a pledge… I remember reading that.

But we were also supposed to get a deal by OMA too, right? I mean fall…. I mean January where the old guys go. Summer 2024 anyone?

Besides… this isn’t my show. It seems sufficient leverage was generated by the bargaining unit in 2005 and 2015 by those at the controls.

Is it safe to assume the company has hardened its business to be resisted to the 2005/2015 playbook.

Maybe it’s time to update those bargaining tactics on the union side.

I don’t believe they care about Selloffs. They cost more and they’ll gladly pay the higher fee to wait us out.. or pay pilots to fly VED/VAWD.

Next area of leverage please? Not flying open time is a 121 playbook item and it’s been outfoxed.

Again… the leverage isn’t there.

The union must find the proper leverage to exact results.

Using the playbook from 2005 at 121 isn’t working.

They’ll shrink the operation and charge more when attrition swells (680 and XLS mass retirement) and they’ll sell off at their short term pain to get long term gain. How’s that for peeing in the wind and calling it rain?? Our own strategy against us.

To blame anyone except themselves (especially anyone in the membership) for their own shortcomings is pathetic, cheap and undeserving of the dues we all pay. But many of us are expecting it.

But we’ve got a long history of assigning blame’s to scapegoats here don’t we? It’s the way of things with people like yourself who don’t think about things logically, only emotionally.

You can get mad at individual dues payers all you like… it doesn’t change the fact that maybe the dues payers are owed more in the form of better, more effective ideas to get this contract done.

2.5 E Days should have NEVER been agreed to. FDP plus 2.5 E Days were nothing but AJ setting the stage for where we are now.

But I’m sure that a 10 year deal with 2.5 E days is my fault too.

Checkers and Chess. Which are we playing?

they will recover the extra cost of the sub when they write it off at the end of the fiscal year.

Peeing into the wind is trying to have a coherent conversation with you. Do you even read the dribble that you write? No of course not, just deflecting and obfuscating. The weapon of choice for babbling empty suits.

Exactly.

Anyone who’s ran a business knows this.

Also, anyone who’s ran a business knows the value of labor peace so I hope that we’re all rounding the corner on this bargaining cycle.