742Dash

It is very simple. No pilot who had spent his formative years towing or instructing would have pulled the wheel into his gut when startled. And that is what caused this accident.

1500 hours is an opportunity, even an obligation, to be become skilled and street smart before you have a bunch of paying passengers behind you.

Frick

I'm not disagreeing with you. I think requiring 1500 hours is a good thing. I used to not think so, but now I realize experience definitely helps. I just have a hard time believing 1,000 hours towing banners rather than 1,000 hours in a Q400 would have prevented the CA from stalling the airplane. I currently fly a Beechjet 400 and I've learned more in the last 100 hours than I did in the 700 hours before that. Not just because its a new airplane, but because its more complex, I'm flying into busier airports with a higher workload, and things just generally happen a lot faster. I have to be on my toes.

USMCFLYR

Frick -

A 1,000 hours towing a banner right a the edge if a stall, as the previous poster said, would have probably taught a pit that sticking the yoke in his lap was the wrong move - EVER!
A 1,000 hours in a Q-400 with a vast majority of it spent squarely and safely in the heart of the envelope might not develop those same skills/intuition. If a pilot has spent most of their flying careers without having to explore the edges of the flight envelopes, then it becomes more of an academic exercise.

Nevets

Yes, you do learn a lot in those first 100 hours in a new turbine powered aircraft. But what you are missing is that you may not have the same readiness (laws of learning) too learn what you should learn in those 100 hours if you don't have the fundamentals down in the previous 500 hours instructing, banner towing, etc. Just the opportunity to scare yourself a couple of times on those 500 hours are learning experiences you carry with you forever!

This is what people don't get. Yes, most any 250 hour commercial pilot can be trained to manipulate the controls of most any turbine powered aircraft in a reasonable amount of time. But it's the intangibles that you don't learn because of the lack of experience that is the true cause if many accidents. It's very rarely airmanship that is a contributing factor in an accident. It's more likely that it's aeronautical decision making and human factors that perpetuated the chain of events that led to an accident. Those 1000 hours are supposed to be for learning everything else other than the physical art of flying.

Cubdriver

Everybody says the 3407 accident pilot stalled the plane in a fit of poor thinking which is probably true, but I do not think I have ever any heard proof that he wasn't thinking he had a tail stall due to ice accretion. If he thought the latter (tail stall), then what he did would have been sensible.

What

That's why the FO raised the flaps! The main contributor was their fatigue, they mentally weren't there!

Coolbeans

Having flown the q400 things about the crash have to be broken down. First big mistake was not having the correct speeds set for icing conditions. With the ref speed switch set in the on position speeds should have been increased about 20 knots. So basically he was configuring the airplane like it was ref speed of 120 when in reality ref should have been closer to 140. You would see guys slow the airplane down call for flaps the red tape would be coming to what seemed like scary close and when the flaps finally kicked in the tap would disappear from view. Well if he had that mind set of none ice I can see how he got caught off guard by the stick shaker. Secondly he executed a poor stall recover. Everyone talks about push the nose down push the nose down but at the time of the crash that is not what was taught it was stay in the flight directors and we all know how funky that can be in the sim in training. Sometimes it takes guys a couple of tries before it even looks ok. Still to this day guys tell you to push the nose over but not to much, you can loose altitude but no more than 200 feet. What has really been pushed a side is that one that switch was not really taught well and was not stressed to pilots the importance setting speeds correctly in icing conditions hence why the very next day they had another stall shaker event and two guys would set the normal speeds if they thought they would be out of the clouds which if you forgot you set yourself up for a similar situation to 3407. The most important things for pilots no matter how much time one has is Bad situations and bad practices can lead to bent metal.

Cubdriver

We know the airplane got slow for a fact, and I am not sure how speed un/stable the 400 is, but if they were thinking ice is affecting the airplane then letting it get slow is not consistent with the thought. Vref-ice is always faster than normal. But if they did get slow, got the shaker by surprise, then in a panic reacted thinking it was a tail stall rather than a wing stall, I can see it, but there would have to be some other form of corroborating evidence such as a forward pull on the control column.

Coolbeans

The accident was caused because the speed switch was on period if that switch was off there would have been no stick shacker and the airplane would have landed as normal. In Europe q400 hundred had a very similar situation happen first officer got slow because speeds where set wrong stick shaker happen the captain reached up and to the speed switch off, stick shaker goes away. In flight 3407 they had no idea why they had a stick shaker so his response actually made the situation worse. I am flying the crj200 now we don't increase speeds for ice nor does the airplanes speed tap change for icing conditions. In the q400 the stick shaker will activate 20knots earlier than it would with the ref switch off. The guy was flying assuming that the airplane would behave a certain way when it was not going to because of its configuration. The stick shacker went off at 131 if that switch was off it would have activated at 110.

What

So you are saying that the Q400 shaker is based on speed instead of AOA?