Originally Posted by cannotdupilcate

You are free of course to make your own decisions but be patient and bear in mind that all these 135 operators are basically the same. NETJETS, GAMA XO and DPJ (now) are at the top really in that order as they have the money to operate on a relatively safe platform. NETJETS train and test to part 121. These four are not included in my comments.


The others, some are in the ballpark better than others, some are like a used car lot despite the rantings of the sycophants and other 'team players' where SOP's are inversely proportional to revenue.
Watch out for companies trying to grow too fast with that as some weird selling point. Growth requires infrastructure FIRST, proper investment and experience. Quality not Quantity.

What is your long term goal?? Choose wisely Dudes and Dudesses! meaning "y'all should go to the airlines"

So, are you getting proper training? (FSI) then after the sim real IOE time with standardized training syllabus, monitored and documented progress by a real training Captain with Jet training experience from a real training department. Not just dropped in with some old fart who doesn't follow checklists or SOP's, doesn't brief and thinks flying with defects helps the company.
Do you fly from Day 1 like the airlines do, not some ludicrous don't touch the controls for 25 hrs then no flying with Passengers , etc. You either have the rating or you don't. Watch the video's on the Lear crash at TEB, read the CVR transcript. This way of operating is way more common then you would like to know about.
If you are a Captain do you really have the experience? Do you get full recurrent training every six months or do they cheap out with a 6 month COT (if they do that, is it tailored to issues that crews have been having recently like busting SIDS and STARS).
If you really want a career in flying GO TO THE REGIONALS, suck up the lower pay, and conditions for real 121 time for the training and experience. Do your apprenticeship!
Remember a 121 carrier will ask you why you went to Catfish airways. What are you going to say? Well, my buddy was there, it was easier....But the money was good....I got to fly Left seat in a puddle jumper ....If so, then don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out of the interview if you even get one.
The bottom feeder 135s can ruin your career and when you do go to 121 your primacy of bad habits and misunderstandings will cause you a lot of issues. You are just cheap labor for them, a right seat busboy, you deserve better training after spending all your money originally.
Do they have structured Safety meetings regularly as ARGUS/WYVERN SMS mandates and are the de-identified minutes disseminated to the staff like Netjets do for education? Do they have a Trained Safety Manger with a confidential non-punitive reporting system? Or is the Safety person just a figurehead for the next audit? Do they even have an SMS albeit cut and paste and has anyone read it?
Check the background of the post holders, Does the Training manager have a background in structured Jet operations? Are the top management really experienced in Aviation and Airline trained or just used car salesmen? Have the dispatchers all passed the relevant exams so that their certificate is on the line also?
Is the owner/company financially sound? What other companies were they involved with? What happened there? This stuff is public domain, google the people first, then ask the questions knowing the truth.
Are they any lawsuits pending and/or settlements with the State department of labor? Are there any FAA violations?
What insurances do they have in place when on duty? Driving a rental car? In an UBER? Work related injuries?
Do they constantly feel the need to tell everyone how good and safe they are and how much they 'look after' their wonderful team? And how they never have incidents or violations? Do they just hide them or delete the reports.
Remember ARGUS Platinum means NO REPORTED INCIDENTS a structured safety reporting system and solid SMS. Be suspicious. Look for ISBAO stage 3, Stage 2 is OK and stage 1 means nothing at all.
An ARGUS/WYVERN GOLD company is a better bet as you know they have been relatively honest and they know they need to improve.
Do the same people post non-stop on social media about 'Nirvana aviation' and how great it all is and 'like' everything the company posts? Y'all need to run from these ones.
These are the due diligence questions you should be asking, if you don't like the answers or you a given the runaround then go elsewhere. If someone disagrees with these suggestions, look at who they work for and go elsewhere.
Also, don't always believe the social media postings saying good or bad, have a list of questions and ask every company the same ones and have a spreadsheet. A really smart interviewer will see your potential, if you are this diligent with yourself then you will be with their clients and equipment.
Be smart is what I am saying, it is your future! I am not attacking anyone in particular but the sea is full of sharks so build your cage and the best of luck. There is a lot of enjoyment to be had, it is up to you.

Originally Posted by 1212135

That a pretty broad statement. While true if you work for a fly by night Part 135 carrier. I highly doubt Netjet, Flexjet, Xojet, Gama falls in to this buyer beware statement. My impression is Gama seemed to have been implied multiple times. While yes the there is area to improve on they are certainly making progress.... I forgot Delta entire infrastructure was built day 1 of its existence???? No over time a company builds it self to greatness.

Originally Posted by EMAW

That’s why he said in his first paragraph, those 4 do not fall under his statement.

Originally Posted by Pirot

I’m happy at Gama Aviation. The King Air 350 is a nice airplane and the pay and benifits are good. The safety culture is real. IOE with a training captain follows initial training at Flight Safety. Six month training is also at Flight Safety. The company is working to operate like an airline with SOPs so you know what to expect from your crew mate. You stay in nice hotels on tour and keep the hotel points. You also keep the airline miles acrude commuting to and from work.

Originally Posted by cannotdupilcate

You are free of course to make your own decisions but be patient and bear in mind that all these 135 operators are basically the same. NETJETS, GAMA XO and DPJ (now) are at the top really in that order as they have the money to operate on a relatively safe platform. NETJETS train and test to part 121. These four are not included in my comments.
The others, some are in the ballpark better than others, some are like a used car lot despite the rantings of the sycophants and other 'team players' where SOP's are inversely proportional to revenue.
Watch out for companies trying to grow too fast with that as some weird selling point. Growth requires infrastructure FIRST, proper investment and experience. Quality not Quantity.

What is your long term goal?? Choose wisely Dudes and Dudesses! meaning "y'all should go to the airlines"

So, are you getting proper training? (FSI) then after the sim real IOE time with standardized training syllabus, monitored and documented progress by a real training Captain with Jet training experience from a real training department. Not just dropped in with some old fart who doesn't follow checklists or SOP's, doesn't brief and thinks flying with defects helps the company.
Do you fly from Day 1 like the airlines do, not some ludicrous don't touch the controls for 25 hrs then no flying with Passengers , etc. You either have the rating or you don't. Watch the video's on the Lear crash at TEB, read the CVR transcript. This way of operating is way more common then you would like to know about.
If you are a Captain do you really have the experience? Do you get full recurrent training every six months or do they cheap out with a 6 month COT (if they do that, is it tailored to issues that crews have been having recently like busting SIDS and STARS).
If you really want a career in flying GO TO THE REGIONALS, suck up the lower pay, and conditions for real 121 time for the training and experience. Do your apprenticeship!
Remember a 121 carrier will ask you why you went to Catfish airways. What are you going to say? Well, my buddy was there, it was easier....But the money was good....I got to fly Left seat in a puddle jumper ....If so, then don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out of the interview if you even get one.
The bottom feeder 135s can ruin your career and when you do go to 121 your primacy of bad habits and misunderstandings will cause you a lot of issues. You are just cheap labor for them, a right seat busboy, you deserve better training after spending all your money originally.
Do they have structured Safety meetings regularly as ARGUS/WYVERN SMS mandates and are the de-identified minutes disseminated to the staff like Netjets do for education? Do they have a Trained Safety Manger with a confidential non-punitive reporting system? Or is the Safety person just a figurehead for the next audit? Do they even have an SMS albeit cut and paste and has anyone read it?
Check the background of the post holders, Does the Training manager have a background in structured Jet operations? Are the top management really experienced in Aviation and Airline trained or just used car salesmen? Have the dispatchers all passed the relevant exams so that their certificate is on the line also?
Is the owner/company financially sound? What other companies were they involved with? What happened there? This stuff is public domain, google the people first, then ask the questions knowing the truth.
Are they any lawsuits pending and/or settlements with the State department of labor? Are there any FAA violations?
What insurances do they have in place when on duty? Driving a rental car? In an UBER? Work related injuries?
Do they constantly feel the need to tell everyone how good and safe they are and how much they 'look after' their wonderful team? And how they never have incidents or violations? Do they just hide them or delete the reports.
Remember ARGUS Platinum means NO REPORTED INCIDENTS a structured safety reporting system and solid SMS. Be suspicious. Look for ISBAO stage 3, Stage 2 is OK and stage 1 means nothing at all.
An ARGUS/WYVERN GOLD company is a better bet as you know they have been relatively honest and they know they need to improve.
Do the same people post non-stop on social media about 'Nirvana aviation' and how great it all is and 'like' everything the company posts? Y'all need to run from these ones.
These are the due diligence questions you should be asking, if you don't like the answers or you a given the runaround then go elsewhere. If someone disagrees with these suggestions, look at who they work for and go elsewhere.
Also, don't always believe the social media postings saying good or bad, have a list of questions and ask every company the same ones and have a spreadsheet. A really smart interviewer will see your potential, if you are this diligent with yourself then you will be with their clients and equipment.
Be smart is what I am saying, it is your future! I am not attacking anyone in particular but the sea is full of sharks so build your cage and the best of luck. There is a lot of enjoyment to be had, it is up to you.

Originally Posted by cannotdupilcate

You are free of course to make your own decisions but be patient and bear in mind that all these 135 operators are basically the same. NETJETS, GAMA XO and DPJ (now) are at the top really in that order as they have the money to operate on a relatively safe platform. NETJETS train and test to part 121. These four are not included in my comments.
The others, some are in the ballpark better than others, some are like a used car lot despite the rantings of the sycophants and other 'team players' where SOP's are inversely proportional to revenue.
Watch out for companies trying to grow too fast with that as some weird selling point. Growth requires infrastructure FIRST, proper investment and experience. Quality not Quantity.

What is your long term goal?? Choose wisely Dudes and Dudesses! meaning "y'all should go to the airlines"

So, are you getting proper training? (FSI) then after the sim real IOE time with standardized training syllabus, monitored and documented progress by a real training Captain with Jet training experience from a real training department. Not just dropped in with some old fart who doesn't follow checklists or SOP's, doesn't brief and thinks flying with defects helps the company.
Do you fly from Day 1 like the airlines do, not some ludicrous don't touch the controls for 25 hrs then no flying with Passengers , etc. You either have the rating or you don't. Watch the video's on the Lear crash at TEB, read the CVR transcript. This way of operating is way more common then you would like to know about.
If you are a Captain do you really have the experience? Do you get full recurrent training every six months or do they cheap out with a 6 month COT (if they do that, is it tailored to issues that crews have been having recently like busting SIDS and STARS).
If you really want a career in flying GO TO THE REGIONALS, suck up the lower pay, and conditions for real 121 time for the training and experience. Do your apprenticeship!
Remember a 121 carrier will ask you why you went to Catfish airways. What are you going to say? Well, my buddy was there, it was easier....But the money was good....I got to fly Left seat in a puddle jumper ....If so, then don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out of the interview if you even get one.
The bottom feeder 135s can ruin your career and when you do go to 121 your primacy of bad habits and misunderstandings will cause you a lot of issues. You are just cheap labor for them, a right seat busboy, you deserve better training after spending all your money originally.
Do they have structured Safety meetings regularly as ARGUS/WYVERN SMS mandates and are the de-identified minutes disseminated to the staff like Netjets do for education? Do they have a Trained Safety Manger with a confidential non-punitive reporting system? Or is the Safety person just a figurehead for the next audit? Do they even have an SMS albeit cut and paste and has anyone read it?
Check the background of the post holders, Does the Training manager have a background in structured Jet operations? Are the top management really experienced in Aviation and Airline trained or just used car salesmen? Have the dispatchers all passed the relevant exams so that their certificate is on the line also?
Is the owner/company financially sound? What other companies were they involved with? What happened there? This stuff is public domain, google the people first, then ask the questions knowing the truth.
Are they any lawsuits pending and/or settlements with the State department of labor? Are there any FAA violations?
What insurances do they have in place when on duty? Driving a rental car? In an UBER? Work related injuries?
Do they constantly feel the need to tell everyone how good and safe they are and how much they 'look after' their wonderful team? And how they never have incidents or violations? Do they just hide them or delete the reports.
Remember ARGUS Platinum means NO REPORTED INCIDENTS a structured safety reporting system and solid SMS. Be suspicious. Look for ISBAO stage 3, Stage 2 is OK and stage 1 means nothing at all.
An ARGUS/WYVERN GOLD company is a better bet as you know they have been relatively honest and they know they need to improve.
Do the same people post non-stop on social media about 'Nirvana aviation' and how great it all is and 'like' everything the company posts? Y'all need to run from these ones.
These are the due diligence questions you should be asking, if you don't like the answers or you a given the runaround then go elsewhere. If someone disagrees with these suggestions, look at who they work for and go elsewhere.
Also, don't always believe the social media postings saying good or bad, have a list of questions and ask every company the same ones and have a spreadsheet. A really smart interviewer will see your potential, if you are this diligent with yourself then you will be with their clients and equipment.
Be smart is what I am saying, it is your future! I am not attacking anyone in particular but the sea is full of sharks so build your cage and the best of luck. There is a lot of enjoyment to be had, it is up to you.

Originally Posted by Dragon Jet

Dear Fellow Pilots

Need advise to pick one of theses operators .

Both are 8 on 6 days of 1 year to upgrade

B-350 or BE-400 ?

Thank you in Advance

Fly safe

Originally Posted by aspiretofly

TMC is a great place to work. Message me for details.