Alaska Jobs
10-30-2008, 08:24 AM
#61
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2005
Position: Still Swinging props!
Posts: 297
Pro~
As you might expect in aviation, there are few places one can walk in with zero experience, gain an entry level job and fund the raising of a family. That being said, the money will be better up north than down south. The farther one roams from concrete, the better the pay.
When I started life on the tundra, the entry pay was 190/day. It wasn't long before that was up to 225/day, once I proved the ability to move the aircraft without actually bending it up. I left AK for a while, and came back to a whole new niche, started right back at 190/day. In less than a year I was up to 250/day, and at two years looking for 280/day or so.
Right now, there are some 'whiners' (as in what jets do), who say they would never work for less than 500/day. I'm sure that they mean this. However, for the first year or two of experience, it's not that bad.
Add to that the level of experience and skill, judgement and knowledge that one adds to the toolbox after flying in AK. Even Alaska Airline pilots freely admit that they would have trouble doing what we do, even under the best of weather and circumstance. Fun to talk with the crew, after delivering passengers to them in a Beaver! It's not better, it's just different. And I love different!
To answer your questions:
1. Can I raise a family? I've seen some that have, but it's tough for that first year.
2/3. Where? There are flying jobs all over the state. What you have to decide is what you're willing to do for your first 500 hours of Alaska time. After a year or two I could get a job in Anchorage, be home every night (try that, whiners!), and live modestly. It might take a year or two up north, or on the tundra first. 20 on/10 off rotations aren't uncommon, and allow 'visitation' home with nice big blocks of time. Some offer 7/7, or 15/15.
Your time is valuable, an ATP even more so. I'd bet a guy with an ATP could hire on with a place like Everts Air Cargo, fly sidesaddle for a few months until a front seat opens up. They fly the DC-6, but as you would expect, the pay is low to start. Amazing airplane (I'm a round-sound nut), but you could write a book on what you'll learn and experience.
Bethel is another place for FNG's. A whole slew of operators there, flying singles and twins for local necessities. Touristy places have touristy flights, all up and down the SE panhandle of Alaska, and that works great for building AK time.
As an instructor, I might add that you have the opportunity to network while you work, gaining AK time, as an instructor in Anchorage. A second job would be normal, but you'll get to know what's up here by doing that. I have several friends that look fondly upon their ANC instructing time and the contacts earned while dealing with the aviation community on a daily basis, doing what you already know.
PM me if you want, I have names and numbers if you want. I'll be off grid for a while, so be patient if I don't answer right away.
PS.... ALASKA FLYING IS LARGELY RECESSION PROOF! (whiners roll your eyes) After my regional lost the contract I was flying on, I traded in my captain bars for a floatplane. The farther from touristy places, the more secure the job, but I feel confident the work will always be up here.
Now I'm sure it's time for some Bethel-bashing, LAB-crying, Penn-air furloughees to chime in with the other side, and they will express rightous complaints. It's not without challenge!
Again and again, the passage is repeated: I came to Alaska to fly a season, that was 10 years ago. Alaska is the biggest small town you'll ever live in.
Good luck!
Ronin
As you might expect in aviation, there are few places one can walk in with zero experience, gain an entry level job and fund the raising of a family. That being said, the money will be better up north than down south. The farther one roams from concrete, the better the pay.
When I started life on the tundra, the entry pay was 190/day. It wasn't long before that was up to 225/day, once I proved the ability to move the aircraft without actually bending it up. I left AK for a while, and came back to a whole new niche, started right back at 190/day. In less than a year I was up to 250/day, and at two years looking for 280/day or so.
Right now, there are some 'whiners' (as in what jets do), who say they would never work for less than 500/day. I'm sure that they mean this. However, for the first year or two of experience, it's not that bad.
Add to that the level of experience and skill, judgement and knowledge that one adds to the toolbox after flying in AK. Even Alaska Airline pilots freely admit that they would have trouble doing what we do, even under the best of weather and circumstance. Fun to talk with the crew, after delivering passengers to them in a Beaver! It's not better, it's just different. And I love different!
To answer your questions:
1. Can I raise a family? I've seen some that have, but it's tough for that first year.
2/3. Where? There are flying jobs all over the state. What you have to decide is what you're willing to do for your first 500 hours of Alaska time. After a year or two I could get a job in Anchorage, be home every night (try that, whiners!), and live modestly. It might take a year or two up north, or on the tundra first. 20 on/10 off rotations aren't uncommon, and allow 'visitation' home with nice big blocks of time. Some offer 7/7, or 15/15.
Your time is valuable, an ATP even more so. I'd bet a guy with an ATP could hire on with a place like Everts Air Cargo, fly sidesaddle for a few months until a front seat opens up. They fly the DC-6, but as you would expect, the pay is low to start. Amazing airplane (I'm a round-sound nut), but you could write a book on what you'll learn and experience.
Bethel is another place for FNG's. A whole slew of operators there, flying singles and twins for local necessities. Touristy places have touristy flights, all up and down the SE panhandle of Alaska, and that works great for building AK time.
As an instructor, I might add that you have the opportunity to network while you work, gaining AK time, as an instructor in Anchorage. A second job would be normal, but you'll get to know what's up here by doing that. I have several friends that look fondly upon their ANC instructing time and the contacts earned while dealing with the aviation community on a daily basis, doing what you already know.
PM me if you want, I have names and numbers if you want. I'll be off grid for a while, so be patient if I don't answer right away.
PS.... ALASKA FLYING IS LARGELY RECESSION PROOF! (whiners roll your eyes) After my regional lost the contract I was flying on, I traded in my captain bars for a floatplane. The farther from touristy places, the more secure the job, but I feel confident the work will always be up here.
Now I'm sure it's time for some Bethel-bashing, LAB-crying, Penn-air furloughees to chime in with the other side, and they will express rightous complaints. It's not without challenge!
Again and again, the passage is repeated: I came to Alaska to fly a season, that was 10 years ago. Alaska is the biggest small town you'll ever live in.
Good luck!
Ronin
10-30-2008, 10:32 AM
#62
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: Left
Posts: 71
still a few jobs in AK
There were a couple adds in the classifieds the other day...which I think is amazing considering where things are...Guardian was looking for a caravan pilot for dillingham, and i don't remember the other one.
10-30-2008, 12:28 PM
#63
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Position: Groundlooped and liking it
Posts: 266
Guardian has a pilot for Dilly already. I can't remember the other job eaither. Last year Everts was willing to hire, or at least interview, anyone with a commercial. I'm not sure that's the case anymore.
10-30-2008, 01:08 PM
#64
Self Employed.
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Corporate Pilot
Posts: 7,119
Success in Alaska Flying
Originally Posted by AKflyguy
skyhigh....it sounds like all your friends and acquaintances are either dead AK 135 pilots or former airline pilots who are now rich, happy and carefree now that they've quit the flyin business. Please, tell us all about a friend of yours who has had success in this line of work.
I started out as a flight instructor in Anchorage and kept track of all my coworkers career progress over the last 18 years. Most went on to air taxi flying after a few years of instructing. Since then nearly every single ex-coworker has quit flying altogether or has been killed on the job. I lost four good friends who were killed in Alaska or while employed by an Alaskan operator. I do have a friend who is at a regional and an ex-coworker who is still flying in AK, I am told, but I lost track of her more than a decade ago.
It is not hard to find gainful employment in Alaska as a pilot. The work is satisfying and fun. The pay is better than what you could find in the lower 48. However, in my experience it does not really help much in the pursuit of a prosperous career that leads to a normal and happy family life. The pay is good when compared to other pilot jobs however when compared to other jobs in Alaska it is not all that great. The flight time has little value to the outside world and often employers in the lower 48 have a difficult time understanding the demands of the job. It is a hard life and it wears on you after a while.
My goal was always to try and build a successful airline career. I went to Alaska because I had no other options at the time. I got stuck in the ALaska rut and had a hard time getting out. In the end I spent 7 years up there and left with little to show for it. Thousands of hours of piston Alaska VFR time really is useless to the rest of the world. I had a good time and made some money however as far as helping my career it was a total waste of time. The contacts that you make only serve as leads to more Alaska jobs.
If success means advancement to the airlines or fancy corporate flying then I would not go up there unless you got a job in an IFR turbine twin. As far as making a living and supporting a family as a bush pilot my suggestion is to get a job at UPS as a delivery guy. You will make far more, get good benefits and be able to retire instead of merely flying until the end came. The guy who took my place at one of the air taxis that I worked at moved into my old shack with his wife and three kids and then killed himself and five passengers during his first winter there.
I am told that things are not as bad now however it still is a dead end in my estimation. Success is relative though.
SkyHigh
11-02-2008, 04:34 PM
#65
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2008
Position: Enjoying the view
Posts: 407
Thanks for the great replies guys. Since my wife is actually excited about the Alaska idea, I am going to keep digging further. On one hand I think it might be best to try to get a job at PenAir when they resume hiring in the spring. Then I could at least have 121 experience if we only wanted to stay in Alaska for 2-3 years. On the other hand, I hear from my Alaska students that I could probably make more money right away with a 135 job (but then I would still not have any large aircraft experience). If we actually wanted to stay in Alaska (some friends have said that we would really like it), would it maybe be better to just get a bush flying job? What do you guys think?
11-10-2008, 07:41 PM
#66
On Reserve
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Posts: 11
Originally Posted by proskuneho
Thanks for the great replies guys. Since my wife is actually excited about the Alaska idea, I am going to keep digging further. On one hand I think it might be best to try to get a job at PenAir when they resume hiring in the spring. Then I could at least have 121 experience if we only wanted to stay in Alaska for 2-3 years. On the other hand, I hear from my Alaska students that I could probably make more money right away with a 135 job (but then I would still not have any large aircraft experience). If we actually wanted to stay in Alaska (some friends have said that we would really like it), would it maybe be better to just get a bush flying job? What do you guys think?
I disagree with the last poster about some of his points, but it depends on how you manage your career while in Alaska. It can provide you with a good paycheque while flying a piston single. A pay cheque that you can live on, that vs. a CRJ FO pay cheque in the south. But keep your on on the ball, where do you want to go with your career? What do you want to end up flying? After getting in the door with a company, any company, work there a year, reevaluate where you are, and stay or go. Stay and enjoy the company, or go and move to a company that can offer meaningful upgrades (or go back south after having gotten some flight time). Don't be in a rush to move on, just take some time to make sure that you're moving to the goal you think you'd like.
One difference up north that has not been mentioned here (thought I may have missed it) is that a very large percentage of Alaskan pilots actually DON'T want to fly for an airline, wear a uniform, have a captain that they work for and slave for, shave every day (even some of the ladies).
There are people like that!! I know, most lower 48ers would find it hard to believe, but I won't turn this into an anti-airline career path rant, tampting as it is, I'm sure you've read it all before.
In many ways, I will say, flying in Alaska means a great opportunity to see some amazing country, learn a lot of lessons about yourself and about flying, and learning from something other than just a book. It could well be the last place in America where the captain of a single engine piston holds a lot of respect for his abilities as a pilot from his passengers. I'd be happy to know that I'm wrong on that one.
Feel free to PM with any questions.
11-11-2008, 09:39 PM
#67
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2005
Position: Still Swinging props!
Posts: 297
Alti--
Nicely put. I smiled this morning, watching the passengers from Gamble climb on board, thinking about your post. They would most likely turn and get back off the airplane if they found their crew were clean shaven and wearing shoulder boards! LOL! And I've been lucky dealing with the fembots we have up here, a large majority have been hot, even by Vegas standards.
Spot on about being valued, too. Not that you gain respect for being a pilot up here (let's face it, if you're not a pilot, you have a close friend who is one), but it may be the last place I've ever been treated like a PERSON as a pilot! Does that make sense? Forget about the little gifts we get from the seat back pouches. It's an understood and valued skill, in my experience.
'Nuther point: Sky High is completely correct in his point that one must MANAGE ones career. That said, I've been flying in Alaska less than 5 years, and I've never made less than 50/yr here.... next year will be knocking on the door to 6 figures. AND with 20/10 schedule, I get a week vacation every month! Add in a little jumpseating privledges, and BAM! I have a quality of life that builds photo albums, story telling and bed time stories. Your performance may vary. I've flown Sleds to Beavers, twins to turbines, floats to wheels. I'm not saying it's for everybody~ but for a farm boy from Ohio, it seems to work ok. If you're not sure where you're going, what you like, this can be a place where you can figure it out. Alaska is the biggest small town you'll ever live in (one of those hot fembots I knew used to say that all the time ~ Hi, Audrey!).
Not for everyone, but sure works for the rest. Good luck in your travels, be safe, be smart and miss the hard pointy parts that define the edge of flyable airspace.
Ronin
Nicely put. I smiled this morning, watching the passengers from Gamble climb on board, thinking about your post. They would most likely turn and get back off the airplane if they found their crew were clean shaven and wearing shoulder boards! LOL! And I've been lucky dealing with the fembots we have up here, a large majority have been hot, even by Vegas standards.
Spot on about being valued, too. Not that you gain respect for being a pilot up here (let's face it, if you're not a pilot, you have a close friend who is one), but it may be the last place I've ever been treated like a PERSON as a pilot! Does that make sense? Forget about the little gifts we get from the seat back pouches. It's an understood and valued skill, in my experience.
'Nuther point: Sky High is completely correct in his point that one must MANAGE ones career. That said, I've been flying in Alaska less than 5 years, and I've never made less than 50/yr here.... next year will be knocking on the door to 6 figures. AND with 20/10 schedule, I get a week vacation every month! Add in a little jumpseating privledges, and BAM! I have a quality of life that builds photo albums, story telling and bed time stories. Your performance may vary. I've flown Sleds to Beavers, twins to turbines, floats to wheels. I'm not saying it's for everybody~ but for a farm boy from Ohio, it seems to work ok. If you're not sure where you're going, what you like, this can be a place where you can figure it out. Alaska is the biggest small town you'll ever live in (one of those hot fembots I knew used to say that all the time ~ Hi, Audrey!).
Not for everyone, but sure works for the rest. Good luck in your travels, be safe, be smart and miss the hard pointy parts that define the edge of flyable airspace.
Ronin
11-13-2008, 07:27 PM
#68
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Position: Cessna 205
Posts: 228
Little ACE
I've heard rumors of Little ACE shutting down for a few days. Anyone have any info?
11-13-2008, 09:27 PM
#69
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2007
Position: FO
Posts: 224
Originally Posted by Frozen Ronin
Alti--
Nicely put. I smiled this morning, watching the passengers from Gamble climb on board, thinking about your post. They would most likely turn and get back off the airplane if they found their crew were clean shaven and wearing shoulder boards! LOL!
Nicely put. I smiled this morning, watching the passengers from Gamble climb on board, thinking about your post. They would most likely turn and get back off the airplane if they found their crew were clean shaven and wearing shoulder boards! LOL!
11-14-2008, 01:18 AM
#70
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2005
Position: Still Swinging props!
Posts: 297
Maybe, I dunno. Doubt they have to be clean shaven, or wear shoulder boards, but maybe a white shirt is part of the deal? I'm happy with my Carharts and canvas shirts. Glad I don't get graded on spelling, either. But thanks for the assist! Stick around, I'll probably grind up another name sooner or later.
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