1Wingnut

The weird thing about not being able to build a hold - someone told me that the Cessna Mustang also has the G1000 based system, and it CAN build a hold. Seems like a little software patch would fix this issue with the Phenoms.

cleared4ils

We have a Mustang in our flight department, we've done all the software updates that have come out, but still no way to plug a hold into the box. We actually met with Garmin and that was one of the things we discussed, among many others, but still no fix for the holds...

1Wingnut

Ah, OK, I guess I heard wrong on that point then.

One other thing I would mention on the Phenom 100, it has a temperature limitation of -60 degrees. I have run into that a few times, and had to descend from my planned cruising altitude as a result. I'm not sure why this limitation exists, but I wonder if the Brazilians just didn't get test data colder than that.

Flyboy8784

Hahaha yeah I cant imagine seeing -60 altitudes in Brazil. I appreciate the help guys, I guess maybe if we all collectively complain enough, Garmin will make a software patch.

Flying in and out of KLGA my whole career, i can say ive had to hold PPOS quite a few times. The less i have to think, the better!

FlyingNasaForm

Actually you would see -60C frequently in Brazil. I fly in Singapore (right on the equator) and you usually hit -60C at 41,000.

In a standard atmosphere the tropopause (the place where temperatures remain constant over a span of altitudes) height is 36,200 with a temperature of -56.6C.

However, since warm air expands the troposphere is "thicker" at the equator and thinner at the poles. Here in Singapore the tropopause height is usually in the low 50s. Today it’s at 53,000 feet, so you climb temperatures will continue to decrease at roughly 2C/1000 feet until you hit 53,000 feet.

Here is a link to view tropopause heights. Click a region on the globes, the altitudes are shown in the square boxes which may or may not have an up or down arrow. Here is the chart legend.

As you pass 36,200 (standard height of tropopause) the temperature here is around ISA+6 (-50). However since you are not actually in the tropopause yet the air continues to cool and you reach our max altitude of 41,000 feet and -60C which is now ISA-4. So in 5,000 feet you’ve gone from ISA +5 to ISA – 4.

If you could make it all the way up to 53,000 the temperature would be -84C and ISA-28!

Over the poles the tropopause is rather low, resulting in very high ISA temperatures. As airplane will hit the tropopause as low as 23,000 in some places. Temperatures will stop decreasing as you climb but ISA will not, resulting in ISA+ conditions.

It is an engine certification limit.


YES! Go with the G150. You get a real cabin, and 3,000nm and Gulfstream customer support backing you. The G-150 may be a tad ugly but for the price I think it’s a winner.

RI830

Any news on the Phenom demo?

Flyboy8784

Yeah guys October 2nd is our meeting. More to post after that!

BoilerUP

A G150 is a nice plane (I've demo'd one) that is fast & efficient, but its way overkill for "short business trips" for 6 pax or less.

Look at a CJ2+ or CJ3...400kt+, ProLine21, single pilot capable and VERY economical to operate, compared to a G150 and especially any Challenger.

As a former AWACer myself, I can get you any route info you want on the CJ2+ if ya want.

Flyboy8784

Thanks boiler. I think the issue with the CJs are the cabin size. Embraer is boasting about the "ovalite" fuselage which provides more legroom than the citations of comparable size

What kinda range are we talkin?

BoilerUP

No doubt the Embraer has a "better" cabin cross-section, which probably matters if you're used to flying in a Challenger...

Our CJ2+ has a 500lb useful load with two pilots and full fuel.

We've taken 3 pax + bags for all nonstop from SAN-JVY with about 45kt average tailwind, gone SJC-MIE with two pax and bags for all with 50kt average tailwind, and taken 7 passengers 900nm against 100kt+ winter headwinds, and each time landing with at least 100nm alternate reserves.