salhnl

Thanks for this info. So from another post someone said you only get paid for the “flight time?”

How many hours of “flight time” do you average in one month? For instance if you average 80 hours @ 12 = $960
Is this correct? After taxes you are only getting paid like $700 a month? Am I missing something?

CFI @ 80 hours billable per month @ $27 = $2160 or $1600

That is almost $1000 difference.

I know both CFI and SAE FO is a stepping stone for bigger and better, but SAE seems extremely low.

Boeing Aviator

My two cents, as a United pilot who mentors numerous pilots. I have my own simulator business and I specialize in preparing pilots for 121/135 simulator training.

I’ve worked with a lot of older pilots (mid to late 50’s) who have been out of aviation for 10 to 30 years and or getting a late start and now taking the plunge to be full time 121 pilots. Many hope to make it to the low cost carrier level (JetBlue, Spirit, Frontier etc.) some even Legacy (AA, DAL & UAL). We at United are hiring a lot of pilots in mid 50’s and even flown with a new hire who is 61.

I’ve worked with a few pilots the last few years at Southern & Mouleke (Southern bought Mokulele, but they operate separately). I recommend these two carriers highest over any other 135 pilot jobs, why?

Two pilot regional airline, flying 6 to 8 legs a day in high density, lots of actual instrument. Hand flying multiple high speed approaches 120 to 140 KTS into class B & C busy airline airports. Southern pilots are averaging 85 plus hours a month (some as high as 100 to 120 per month). Mokulele averaging 70 to 85 hours per month or more. Most of the pilots I’ve mentored had around 800 to 1000 hours when they have gotten hired. Within 2 to 4 months they upgrade to CA at 1200 hours (135 CA mins) and as soon as they hit 1500 (regional mins) they leave for a Regional.

Southern pays I believe $12 per hour as FO (I now that sucks) and almost 70K as Captain and Mokulele is about double for FO’s but less
for CA’s.

I’ve found older pilots have a harder time getting through Regional training - big jump from a 172 to a transport category jet aircraft. Even though most Regionals have added sim sessions some as high as 12 to 15 (about half of what larger airlines give new hires) there is still a 10 to 20 percent wash out rate. Much easier transition coming from Southern (Caravan) to the regionals and they are significantly more prepared vs coming straight from flight instructing.

For the younger guys, if you can get hired as an FO for Southern or Mokulele I’d go in a NY second. Much more competitive to get on with low time vs higher time at these airlines. If you have 1000 to 1200 hours, very easy to get hired.

I flight instructed 34 years ago and there is absolutely nothing wrong with building your time this way. But in all honestly coming from the right or left seat of a caravan in a two pilot airline operation you are far more ready to successfully make the jump to a regional vs coming straight out of the flight instructor ranks.

As far as any flow through to the Regionals, heck with that. If you have 1500 hours, a Medical and a heart beat you will get hired by any regional you want. Southern or Mokulele can’t make you go to a specific regional. Say yes to whatever they say want you to when they hire you, but when you leave Southern or Mouleke then go anywhere you want.

Best of luck to all. Global pilot shortage coming to Low Cost Carriers and Legacies in 5 to 10 years. Going to be much easier to get on with Legacy then vs today (today still extremely competitive).

Boeing Aviator

At Southern you can easily average 100 flying hours per month if you work hard. I believe Mokulele is salary and Southern is per block flying hour. So 100 hours pays $1200 as an FO.

Boeing Aviator

No doubt FO Pay sucks. But your far more qualified for a regional (getting through training not getting job) out of an two pilot airline operation then flight instructing.

Once you upgrade at Southern you’ll make a lot more then a flight instructor. Maybe the compromise is flight instruct to 800 to 1000 hours then only a few months as FO till you upgrade. Get that last 500 to 700 hours really fast.

CaseTractor

In addition to the great points above, consider this:

Age aside, these operations introduce you to Ops Specs, Very Specific FARs, Exemptions, MELs, Maintenance, Flight duty day limits, Dispatch, Security, Gates Agents, Rampers, Chief Pilot Office, Management, Scheduled Service, and most importantly PASSENGERS.

There is so much to learn, and as a brand new 1200 Hour CA, these types of jobs are amazing at teaching responsibility, decision making, and mentorship of an FO. In a small operation like these, the CA runs the show and many in the operation are looking to him or her for answers.

Maintenance could pressure you to take a questionable airplane, a CP may ask why you decided to delay for weather, an MEL may not be complied with properly. All these things will allow you to cut your teeth on airline operations. At the end of the day, a CA has the same responsibilities whether it be a Caravan, an RJ, or a 777.

Lastly, the friends you make at a place like this will last through your career, the bonds made are strong through such challenges.

Boeing Aviator

Exactly! That’s why a CA after starting out as an FO at an airline operation (even flying a single engine turboprop) is superior in every way experience wise vs only building hours as a CFI, if your goal is to be an airline pilot.

salhnl

Extremely helpful information Boeing Aviator!!! Thank you! I’m sure others will also benefit from your response. Lots to think about. I’m one of those guys changing careers in my mid 40’s (in aviation all throughout and always current with my PPL now a CSE) so CFI has come up as I have a family and doing the CFI route would provide a better QOL for my family (2 kids under 3) as we move to a city in which I can CFI, join a regional, and hopefully a major all at domicile without the commute. SAE has been a strong consideration and continues. However, the possibility of being an FO at LNS upgrading to CA and having to move to PNS in a short time is not as easy if I was 24. Once I hit 1500 another move to _____...?
What I’m saying minimizing the moves from potentially 3 if not 4 to maybe just 1. I will strongly consider what you said about succeeding in training coming from a 135 operation rather than CFI. I can appreciate your input being a mentor to guys in this industry.

salhnl

I was just going by what someone else mentioned in this thread regarding pay for “flight hours”. If that is not the case that is welcome news! Thanks

salhnl

I have no doubt these smaller operations teach you so much about the job responsibilities and how to handle so many situations and unpredictable things. A really hands on experience. One thing that has come up, if pilots are pursuing the majors, it’s my understanding the majors want to see the CFI experience since the CA is that mentor to the FO. The CFI naturally molds you to that teaching experience. In an ideal situation it be great to have both I would think?

peaches

Why would anyone in this market accept lower than 40k a year?