Cubdriver

Wow, I suspect there is a time coming when the 135 industry gets a real wake-up call about abusing employee est periods. It's completely standard to do so, and for the most part even legal or close to it. And it is nearly impossible to resist if you want your job flying. The only reason a major rule rewrite has not happened already is lack of labor organization as JB mentions.

One of the things I see going on with rest duty rules is, there is nothing in the law about how regular or biorhythm-compatible the 9 hour mandatory rest period is. Companies fully believe they possess their pilots for all but the last 9 hours out of any 24 hour day, and they give that 9 hours off any darned time they want to. Anyone who has worked graveyard knows you go to work tired, and human beings usually function right on regular, night-based sleep, not irregular day sleep. The night freight operators are particularly big on this. They generally keep a pilot on duty all night long every night despite what they forgot to mention when the hiring took place. This means they have some dog-tired pilots flying around at night in a fast machine in possibly dangerous weather for upwards of 15 hours of duty with poor quality rest the day before.

Docflyer

They don't need to rewrite the rule. They already wrote it and interpreted it for you. Stop making excuses about not having a union, everybody does it, etc. Our government doesn't have the resources to hold every pilots hand everyday to make sure you are properly being notified of your rest and duty. If your company is doing something unsafe and/or illegal, it is your duty to report it. Otherwise you are no better than them. You're a professional, this is part of being a professional.

Sorry for the rant but this kind of thing really grinds my gears and it's part of the reason the pilot profession is in the shape it's in. Everybody likes to make excuses instead of doing something.

NERD

Let me guess. Lear jet and Falcon operator based in Texas????

ArcherDvr

I don't think the POI is trying to make policy here. He is basically saying that if you don require your pilots to answer the phone, you are not in violation. 24/7 on call is definitely illegal. But it wouldn't be illegal to "give people the day off" and call them on that day. Whee the operator will get in trouble is if they call, the pilot doesn't answer or refuses the flight, and then disciplines the pilot.

mojo6911

The POI is correct here, and supported by FAA legal opinion.

MR JT8D

Go to the FAA. You'll be fired and ruin your career with a termination on your record, and that's exactly what your employer is banking on . The PRIA record laws are being changed quite soon so employers can't hold this over your head to get away with it.

MR JT8D

Just quit. And you don't need two weeks notice. If you're an at will employee, then you can quit also at anytime for any reason. NO exceptions.

B727DRVR

Hey Mr. JT8D,

Could you go into greater depth about the change to "Pariah" (PRIA). I remember when it came out, our scumbag D.O. at the 135 carrier I flew for was very excited... He intimated that if we were not "team players"(Pilots who were willing to go over gross, below mins, delay write ups, ignore flight and duty times, and various other evils), or Tango Pops as we called them, he said that somehow might end up in our training records.

In the early 2000's, when I was lobbying in D.C. on behalf of my pilot group and ALPA to open up the FFDO program for cargo pilots, I stopped by AOPA headquarters and tried to explain the deep dark underbelly of flying that is somewhere between AOPA and ALPA. No one at AOPA or the lofty halls of congress ever imagined that PRIA would ever be used as a weapon to coerce pilots to break FAR's and do unsafe things to avoid a termination or a retribution checkride failure on their record, but it happens all the time. This is because no one fights for 135 pilots on Capitol Hill, and until those pilots are represented and have lobbyists, nothing will change and pilots will have to continue to walk the same tightrope that their 121 breatheren did in the 1920's.

If this is true about greater protections for pilots in PRIA, then it is fantastic news.

JohnBurke

I haven't had employers be bold enough to say I'd better violate a regulation or my training records will be used against me; my training records reflect what I did in training.

If I make a writeup in the airplane, I make a photocopy. If I have an issue, I keep a record of that issue. When I've talked to a crew scheduler who did attempt to pressure me to get less than minimum rest, count the last day I didn't fly as a day off (back-date a 1-in-7), exceed duty or flight limits, fly with less than adequate reserves, or other issues, I've pushed back. I've also kept detailed records regarding who said what, at what time, and the circumstances of the call.

As a union steward, I once had seven legs in a row with a check airman. I went most of the way around the globe with a check airman; only one leg was a formal line check. I caught up with the check airman in Hong Kong, went to lunch with him, and asked what was going on. He admitted that the chief pilot had sent him to me, and told him to find a reason to bust me on a checkride. I didn't get busted, only because as the check airman told me "I'm nobody's hatchet man." The check airman also allowed that he was given a list of people who were targeted by the chief pilot, and told to go after them, too.

There are two sides to every coin. Someone a few posts back said that there is no need for a union. I'm not a big fan of unions, but there are places in the regulation where big holes have been left that don't prescribe duty regulations, for example, and the only guidance or protection that the crews have is what the unions have negotiated (cargo 121 is a great example).

PRIA isn't a weapon. Those who might attempt to use it as such need to know that it cuts both ways.

I've had pages of writeups at the end of a trip, which put the airplane down for maintenance. A day later the airplane was released and my writeups disappeared. I was told that the company had no evidence of my writeups. Funny, I said, because I have photo copies of all of them right here. What did I intend to do with them, I was asked. That really depends on the company.

Cover yourself. Make sure to document, document, document. Union or not, it becomes important when dealing with the company, with the union, with legal counsel. When an employer was backdating 1-in-7's, the POI was supplied with several documents showing that the company identified days that I was on duty as days off. The POI shut that noise down in a big hurry. It won't happen without documentation.

When I've been asked to do something that I knew I should not do, I used my words. I used my favorite word. "No."

When a series of problems surfaced on a trip, I submitted a report. It was seventeen pages long. I didn't realize just what a storm it caused until I got back stateside, and ran into the chief pilot and assistant chief pilot who looked very unhappy, and were headed for ten days in afghanistan to handle the matter. It shouldn't have been a problem...if they'd operated correctly in the first place.

One can be silent and let things go, do all the things one ought not, or one can do what one knows is the correct, legal, professional thing. Personally, if it's not safe and legal, I'm not going.

Know the regulation. Know the chief legal counsel interpretations. Know what is on your side and what isn't. Know where the lines are really drawn. It's possible to make your point with some degree of diplomacy and still hold your ground, but in the end, don't ever take a job you're not willing to walk away from, and don't ever be unwilling to defend yourself and your position. Just make sure you know what it is and are on solid ground before you lower the white flag.

NoSidNoStar

Agreed with this 100%. Additionally it is much better to quit then to get fired, when you need to discuss your resume with a future employer. Remember when you get an interview, you interview them too, and if you don't like what you hear, no reason to be there.
The OP said he has been flying 135 since 2004. In today job market, I really can't see the reason for it.