thedud

Care to eloborate in numbers as far as the captain “low ball” offer?
Thx.

mojo6911

This is the 2017 Pro Pilot survey for 135 captains. I was offered slightly more than the lowest number for the Falcon 50. Guys hired off the street, with no type, came in making more money, but they were still lower than the average number.

Keep in mind, most people consider these numbers to already be on the low side. At the time, I had 10 hours of jet and a lot of turboprop time. I upgraded quickly, flew with a bunch of great guys, and had a good experience there. The pay, maintenance, and schedule weren't for me, so I quit to contract full time. It wasn't a rage quit, or anything. I happened to meet some good people during my 10 days off and they connected me with some Falcons that I could contract in.

At the time I was hired, the regionals weren't paying what they are now. If they were, I would have just gone there instead.

HwkrPlt

There have been lots of shenanigans with training contracts at Dumont as of late, i.e. they send you to school for a new airplane, and you are required to sign a multi year training contract that is not prorated, and actually goes up after you go to recurrent. And paying G4 pilots less than Falcon 2000 pilots because "you get to fly a gulfstream".

thedud

All good information. Thank you. In today’s market I’m surprised there are still people that agree with those types of sleazy business practices.

David Puddy

Sounds like the standard dirtbag 135 operator. Flying the Falcon 50 was probably interesting/cool - I still view it as one of the sexiest airplanes out there.... But, like you, I wouldn't fly it for what they paid you.

Jetlife

It’s funny because they have a cult following by a group of guys that work there.

Boris Badenov

I can't think of anyone in this cult of which you speak. FWIW, I think the overall quality has degraded noticeably over the last year or so, and morale with it. Personally, I'm still pretty happy, but I would readily acknowledge that it's not for everyone. Mojo's writeup is very close to my experience with the exception that they're paying me a significant amount more to fly the same plane in the same seat (which is one of the things people understandably complain about) and I have never been forced to stay out. Probably because if it is go-home day and I want to go home, I will buy a plane ticket to said home, and they know this.

In any case, I'm glad I'm not at Talon.

thedud

So, what’s the deal. Is each individual “judged” as to their worth regardless of time served? I would think that individuals with the same or similar hire date would make the same amount in their respective seats.

Boris Badenov

As far as I understand it, the rationale behind not giving current employees who are upgrading the same money as new guys is it's "too much of a raise". At least that's what I was told when I was in that position. Maddening. Now, that said, I stuck it out, and through a combination of good luck, timing, and keeping my head down, my base pay is a few ticks above the "average" nbaa numbers above, and my w2 will probably be above the "high" number, due to my willingness to work overtime. This is in no way representative and I'm not defending what I agree are low salary numbers, just pointing out that for me, it works. YMMV, etc etc.

mojo6911

They're not a dirtbag operator, they just have someone in management who is more of a bean counter than a manager. This person is out of touch with the reality of the market. This person's solution to the pilot shortage was implementing 2 and even 3 year training contracts.

With that said, you do live pretty well on the road and the schedule works for some people. They have a lot of outdoor adventurer types that spend half the month in the mountains on or a boat, so they're willing to put up with a certain amount of BS, but even those people are getting kind of fed up.

The realities of the market will set in shortly and the problems will likely rectify themselves, but its unfortunate that management doesn't have the foresight to fix the issues now.



NBAA numbers are much higher. Those are pro pilot survey numbers. To get from average to high on this scale, at the Dumont bonus rate, you would have to work an additional 40 days of OT.