Scooter74

you can also just find a CFII and have him give instrument instruction to you. He then logs Dual given/PIC and you can log Sole man. of controls PIC.

I know this in the low time section but as it was said before, definately over-thinking this.

darkroomsource

And that technicality could be all it takes to lose your ticket. So I'd think twice about this.
If you split the costs and are not going some place where you were both going to be going anyway, then you are in violation of the regs and can be busted for it.
If you swap who rents the plane each trip, then you would be close to, but not completely halved, and technically it would be legal. However if someone from the FAA found out what you were doing, or if an interviewer discovered what you were doing, I think they'd probably have issues with it.
Don't just go with the opinions of those who've posted here, contact your FSDO and see what they say. If it's in your favor, you want it in writing.

Scooter74

Simple answer is just be smart about it. Don't try to "stretch" the regs, but you also don't have to study them for a doctorate.

I can't imagine anyone knowing where the 1/2 of the money came from. I can't imagine anyone from the FSDO really caring enough to find out if you properly divided the costs. They have better things to do then follow around 2 kids to see if the costs are all divided properly.

Now, I am also assuming you are just talking about flying around with one other person, building X-C time. Start loading up the plane with people and it might raise a few eyebrows.

FlyJSH

Umm, I am guessing you never actually talked with a government worker. They will never give an answer other than quoting regs, never provide an interpretation (expect in support of a violation), and NEVER put it in writing.

Don't be so sure. During a random ramp check, they can (and many do) ask seemingly innocent questions which can get you violated.

Scooter74

true josh, but you would have to be really silly to say "oh, we are splitting the price of the plane legal or not". I would never engage in "random" chit chat during a ramp check. I also and well aware of what they can and cannot require you to answer without representation. If you even think that the the conversation is heading to "uncharted" territories, I would immediately shut up and contact a lawyer. Might be "jumping the gun" but better safe than sorry! AOPA has a "cheap" plane which would cover these occasions.

That said, I really don't think that there is a reg (well at least I can't think of the specific one) which prohibits spliting the costs of the plane for time building.

The issue is how the time in logged. Safety pilot is legit and legal, a CFII giving instrument is also legal, and a MEI giving dual should be no issue either.

As for the Regionals looking at the logs and saying "?" well that probably really depends on which regional and how bad they need people. As for Corporate, I would be willing to bet that a 100 or so hours wouldn't even raise an eyebrow. That is a legit way to get some time. it is common, and depending how seriously you take it; it can even be considered CRM training. I know i did some time building using a friends twin which I paid for gas only, and worked with another pilot to sharpen my CRM skills while flying to fun and exciting places.

darkroomsource

MY POINT EXACTLY.
I was just a bit more sarcastic. Or at least tried to be.

darkroomsource

Ramp check includes looking at your log books.
Safety pilot can be legit, but not for splitting the cost.
CFII - not sure he can instruct in an ME without MEI.
You only need one FAA examiner to read this thread and ...

Bellanca

As Scooter said, don't stretch the regs.

Obviously if you buy a block of 20 hours you both can't log exactly 20 hours. The safety pilot cannot legally log run-ups, take-offs, and landings. So maybe you each end up with about 18-19 hours. Now would the FAA or anyone else find out if you each logged the full 20 hours? Probably not unless something happened to you down the road and they went scouring your logbook to verify times, but if that were to happen I'm sure you'd end up pretty screwed. Probably not worth it for the extra hour or two. Try to make it as 'quality' time as possible. Fly practice approaches and make the best out of the time under the hood.

As for the splitting of the costs, if you were a private pilot taking a friend up for a ride you could charge them their pro rata share of rental/fuel expenses. I don't see why it would be different for a 'friend' you are taking up as a safety pilot, especially if you are switching back and forth between PIC at the controls and safety pilot roles. I wouldn't think two people going flying together and spitting the costs evenly would be considered running a commercial operation that requires a commercial operating certificate since private pilots are allowed to do it. According to that reg, you could technically take a couple buddies in the back seat and all go down to Florida on spring break, and have them help pay up to a quarter of the rental expenses.

There is always the issue of whether a potential employer will except safety pilot time, but that isn't really relevant here. In the event of an accident, you could also run into some insurance problems if the person doing the flying isn't checked out in the aircraft, doesn't meet the insurance requirements, or doesn't have required renter's insurance.

Bellanca

I've had bad luck with getting picked for ramp checks, but have never had them look at my log books. It has happened to me 3 times in my 278 hours of flying. But they have picked on me for the pettiest of things.

Cal Varnson

Don't automatically assume that just because you hit the mins that airlines will be knocking at your door. Chances are they won't. Minimums are just that, minimums.