Kicking rocks sounds like it would hurt my toes.

It would also make a philosophical point: :D

“After we came out of the church, we stood talking for some time together of Bishop Berkeley’s ingenious sophistry to prove the non-existence of matter, and that every thing in the universe is merely ideal. I observed, that though we are satisfied his doctrine is not true, it is impossible to refute it. I never shall forget the alacrity with which Johnson answered, striking his foot with mighty force against a large stone, till he rebounded from it, ‘I refute it thus.'”

(Boswell’s Life of Samuel Johnson)

So are the both the company and the union going back to the table to try and better this place? Does anyone know what’s going on? Always seems like things are super secretive and hush-hush and all we have to go on are the rumors we hear on the line.

The Union sent an email about a week or two ago, the Company and Union met on the 25-26th to discuss the failed TA and other issues.

As far as the “secretive” part, that’s probably something to blame the company for. From what I understand non-disclosure agreements lets them play their 4d chess they love so much.

Welcome to the world or airline negotiations. Not sure who’s more to blame ALPA or the company. However it’s mostly the same industry wide.

At PDT Union leadership and management are closely aligned...It was pretty bad during the TA roadshows that line pilots weren’t sure if they were getting the sales pitch from folks who negotiated on behalf of the union or behalf of the company and had to stop the individual talking to ask for clarification.

Get involved, at minimum if you are PHL based, vote for your upcoming reps. We should all push for change.

Well for what’s it worth, it was the same way at Eaglevoy in 2011 and 2014. Just one of the reasons I’ve never been thrilled with ALPA

I do not agree with that. I feel like the Union was simply being informative about the proposed changes and weren't trying sell anything.

I don’t think anyone from the Union is on the take, but this management is extremely hostile. We are stuck in the AA WO whipsaw and everything you see is a byproduct of that.

I thought that too, then I went to a road show. They were some (not all, but some) very actively whitewashing the TA. They were dismissing concerns, real concerns. "Well the intent of that is..." "Well, technically that could happen, but the company won't do that because staffing levels will improve."

Honestly, I was incredibly disappointed that they were the ones representing the pilot group.

They shouldn't have been there dismissing concerns, they should have been giving us the solutions that they developed because they saw those same weaknesses and took steps to mitigate them.

If you had interspersed management in to the panel, you wouldn't have been able to tell which ones were the union and which ones were the company trying to defend and sell the TA.