Reserve time and rules for new hire FO
03-13-2019, 01:00 PM
#31
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2013
Position: millennium falcon navigator
Posts: 107
Originally Posted by MantisToboggan
I'll lay out my thinking.
We've never had anything greater than triple offered (in my time here, at least. Have never heard of quadruple being advertised). That is the bar. Staffing hasn't changed, yet people are working for less than the standard. They're hurting themselves and the rest of us.
That's not to say I won't entertain the idea that working any overtime helps the company and puts a bandaid on an issue that they created and is their problem. There is much truth to that. I don't work on days off. But I will say, if you have to work extra, why are you doing it for cheap? There is zero logic to that.
We've never had anything greater than triple offered (in my time here, at least. Have never heard of quadruple being advertised). That is the bar. Staffing hasn't changed, yet people are working for less than the standard. They're hurting themselves and the rest of us.
That's not to say I won't entertain the idea that working any overtime helps the company and puts a bandaid on an issue that they created and is their problem. There is much truth to that. I don't work on days off. But I will say, if you have to work extra, why are you doing it for cheap? There is zero logic to that.
03-13-2019, 01:12 PM
#32
Banned
Joined APC: Feb 2016
Posts: 761
Originally Posted by Bampilot
...the company isn’t willing to give triple...
Originally Posted by Bampilot
holding out for triple.
Disclaimer: I'm not advocating for any pilot to do anything. Just laying out how it works
03-13-2019, 01:38 PM
#33
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2013
Position: millennium falcon navigator
Posts: 107
Originally Posted by MantisToboggan
The company isn't willing to give triple because guys are willing to fly for double. Get it? Those flights need to get covered. Think they'll cancel it rather than offer it for triple?
You are literally describing jumping on double before another pilot can because you need the money. That is undercutting, which coincidentally is exactly what I'm arguing here. Triple would, again, be readily available if guys like you didn't start getting hired here in the past year. You clearly chose the one marshmallow now. Congrats on that double preems I guess.
Disclaimer: I'm not advocating for any pilot to do anything. Just laying out how it works
You are literally describing jumping on double before another pilot can because you need the money. That is undercutting, which coincidentally is exactly what I'm arguing here. Triple would, again, be readily available if guys like you didn't start getting hired here in the past year. You clearly chose the one marshmallow now. Congrats on that double preems I guess.
Disclaimer: I'm not advocating for any pilot to do anything. Just laying out how it works
03-13-2019, 01:43 PM
#34
Banned
Joined APC: Feb 2016
Posts: 761
Originally Posted by Bampilot
Been here for five years so not sure what you are referring too. My family dynamic changed which is why I need the money.
03-13-2019, 01:43 PM
#35
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2013
Position: millennium falcon navigator
Posts: 107
ohhhh i’m suppose to wait til the last possible second which point the said trip is gone. you obviously don’t need the money so you can afford to gamble. no one brings up the fact that the instructors get asked to work triple and they get paid 100 hours a month. as a captain i havnt been asked to do anything for triple in months.
03-13-2019, 03:06 PM
#36
Banned
Joined APC: Feb 2016
Posts: 761
Originally Posted by Bampilot
ohhhh i’m suppose to wait til the last possible second which point the said trip is gone. you obviously don’t need the money so you can afford to gamble. no one brings up the fact that the instructors get asked to work triple and they get paid 100 hours a month. as a captain i havnt been asked to do anything for triple in months.
03-13-2019, 03:07 PM
#37
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2016
Posts: 264
I have had good success putting in the request for a trip offered as double with the stipulation I will do said trip only for triple. And if not, then no thank you. And I don’t wait till the last minute. Sometimes I’ll do it when the trip is straight time. Still get triple. Request the trip ASAP but say triple only. Then they have the opportunity to cover something without a reserve being burned. Win win
Probably 95%. It’s like buying a car. They have to believe you’ll walk
Remember it’s your services they need. Not the other way
Probably 95%. It’s like buying a car. They have to believe you’ll walk
Remember it’s your services they need. Not the other way
03-13-2019, 03:19 PM
#38
New Hire
Joined APC: Aug 2017
Posts: 4
Pilot’s dilemma
If everyone refused to take double it would go to triple. However, there is no guarantee no one will take the trip for double so you can’t hold out for triple. Game theory and group dynamics anyone?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prisoner%27s_dilemma
I say we call our version the pilot dilemma.
This one isn’t as directly related but more fun for those who don’t want to read.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CemLiSI5ox8
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prisoner%27s_dilemma
I say we call our version the pilot dilemma.
This one isn’t as directly related but more fun for those who don’t want to read.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CemLiSI5ox8
03-13-2019, 03:40 PM
#39
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2013
Position: millennium falcon navigator
Posts: 107
Originally Posted by MantisToboggan
You're missing the part where everyone has to be smart for it to work. But we're not, and they win. Not calling you out personally
03-13-2019, 04:33 PM
#40
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2013
Posts: 110
Originally Posted by Bampilot
still missing the point where i have the time and means to work. people ***** about the schedules pay wise they do suck, but they are ten times better than when i started. let’s not forget the dash days where it was constant 4 days on 2 days off with 4 hour sits between legs. I apologize that when i see three days off i pick up a reserve day or what ever they will give me. i don’t live in base so i don’t have the time to play games with scheduling, and that is what they are, to figure out what i’m going to get paid. Truth is i look at my hours at the end of the month. I need 100. If i’m an ass hole that is trying to take care of my family, well i have no words for you
Not one should ever fault you for looking out for your family.
Point is, the more people that pick up double, even triple premium, the less incentivized the company is to make any changes. Not saying your decision to pick up is bad, just laying out the dynamic.
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