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Anxiety Vs Class 1 medical

Old 02-07-2019, 05:33 AM
  #11  
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Originally Posted by slink12 View Post
That is the reason why some people should take a medicine before flying. It will be better for them, crew and surrounding passengers. For example, there is a medicine called kratom. 100% natural and helps to overcome anxiety. So why would you have this headache with medicine certifications etc, when you can just temporary overcome this issue?
The Mayo Clinic calls this stuff unsafe and ineffective. Check with your doctor.

https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-l...m/art-20402171

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Old 02-07-2019, 07:36 AM
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Originally Posted by slink12 View Post
That is the reason why some people should take a medicine before flying. It will be better for them, crew and surrounding passengers. For example, there is a medicine called kratom. 100% natural and helps to overcome anxiety. So why would you have this headache with medicine certifications etc, when you can just temporary overcome this issue?

Strychnine is a natural product too. So is morphine. “Natural product” means nothing and provides no assurance of either safety or efficacy.

AUGUST 21, 2018
Poisonings from kratom, sold as an herbal supplement, are rising. But no one knows how much
by Mari A. Schaefer, The Philadelphia Inquirer

An unregulated herbal product that advocates say can relieve pain and help with opioid withdrawal has been linked to at least four deaths in the Philadelphia region, but with many authorities failing to track kratom poisonings, there's no way to know if there are more deaths related to the substance.


Kratom, derived from the leaves of a Southeast Asian tree that is part of the coffee family, has gained popularity in recent years. It is sold online, in gas stations and in smoke shops, and is typically brewed as a tea, chewed, smoked or ingested in capsules.

An estimated 3 million to 5 million people use kratom, according to the American Kratom Association, a Colorado-based nonprofit founded in 2014 to promote the herbal product. It has become a billion-dollar business, according to the Botanical Education Alliance, another kratom advocacy group.

The U.S. Drug Enforcement Administration announced in 2016 it would reclassify kratom as a Schedule 1 drug, similar to heroin or marijuana, a step other nations have taken. But the industry groups lobbied to keep it on store shelves.

The U.S. Food and Drug Administration says the active ingredient in kratom, mitragynine, is an addictive substance that acts on the brain's opioid receptors—and is indeed an opioid. Though touted as a stimulant (at low doses), sedative (at high doses), painkiller, and addiction therapy, kratom has no medical value, the FDA declared in February, and has been linked to at least 44 deaths nationally, though the agency admits tracking is haphazard. The kratom industry, meanwhile, disputes the FDA's science and data collection, insisting no one has died from kratom use.

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Old 05-14-2019, 06:41 PM
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Originally Posted by tomgoodman View Post
The Mayo Clinic calls this stuff unsafe and ineffective. Check with your doctor.

https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-l...m/art-20402171
Last year I became aware of that stuff, when a resolution came to the floor of our state political convention concerning it, from a lady I’ve know for decades, in our church. She suffers from severe hip and back pain as well as fibromyalgia. She had been on oxy...something for years and was trying to get weaned off. According to her, she’s been off the pain meds now for 6months has no issues with the fibromyalgia or anxiety. She takes that stuff 3 times a day, at a cost of about 3 dollars/day.

Needless to say she is a huge advocate. The more studies I read,the more I am convinced it is the next “aspirin”.

I’ve always been skeptical of the influence of big pharma on the FDA. Reading the actual science on it has made me an advocate.

However, I don’t think it would be a good idea to fly with it. You can read the studies for yourself here: American Kratom Association - Science
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Old 05-15-2019, 07:08 AM
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Originally Posted by BMEP100 View Post
Last year I became aware of that stuff, when a resolution came to the floor of our state political convention concerning it, from a lady I’ve know for decades, in our church. She suffers from severe hip and back pain as well as fibromyalgia. She had been on oxy...something for years and was trying to get weaned off. According to her, she’s been off the pain meds now for 6months has no issues with the fibromyalgia or anxiety. She takes that stuff 3 times a day, at a cost of about 3 dollars/day.

Needless to say she is a huge advocate. The more studies I read,the more I am convinced it is the next “aspirin”.

I’ve always been skeptical of the influence of big pharma on the FDA. Reading the actual science on it has made me an advocate.

However, I don’t think it would be a good idea to fly with it. You can read the studies for yourself here: American Kratom Association - Science
And I think you are a naive fool:

Aggarwal, Geeta et al. “Death from Kratom toxicity and the possible role of intralipid.” Journal of the Intensive Care Society vol. 19,1 (2017): 61-63. doi:10.1177/1751143717712652

Death from Kratom toxicity and the possible role of intralipid

Geeta Aggarwal, Edward Robertson, [...], and Edward Walter

Additional article information

Abstract

We present the case of a 26-year-old man who was brought into our emergency department in cardiorespiratory arrest, having taken Kratom 24 h previously. Despite multi-organ support, he deteriorated and died from cardiorespiratory failure and hypoxic brain damage 12 h later. Lipid emulsion was given, with significant temporary improvement in the cardiorespiratory failure. Kratom is derived from Mitragyna speciosa, a tropical deciduous and evergreen tree in the coffee family, and is native to Southeast Asia, and its leaves are used as a legal high in some parts of the world. Here, we review the pharmacochemistry of the drug, and wish to highlight that the effects of Kratom may not be as benign as are commonly reported, and the possible role of intralipid in managing the Kratom toxicity in this case.

......


Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report (MMWR)
CDC
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Notes from the Field: Unintentional Drug Overdose Deaths with Kratom Detected — 27 States, July 2016–December 2017
Weekly / April 12, 2019 / 68(14);326–327

Emily O’Malley Olsen, PhD1; Julie O’Donnell, PhD1; Christine L. Mattson, PhD1; Joshua G. Schier, MD1; Nana Wilson, PhD1 (View author affiliations)

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Kratom (Mitragyna speciosa), a plant native to Southeast Asia, contains the alkaloid mitragynine, which can produce stimulant effects in low doses and some opioid-like effects at higher doses when consumed (1). Use of kratom has recently increased in popularity in the United States, where it is usually marketed as a dietary or herbal supplement (1). Some studies suggest kratom has potential for dependence and abuse (1,2). As of April 2019, kratom was not scheduled as a controlled substance. However, since 2012, the Food and Drug Administration has taken a number of actions related to kratom, and in November 2017 issued a public health advisory*; in addition, the Drug Enforcement Administration has identified kratom as a drug of concern. During 2011–2017, the national poison center reporting database documented 1,807 calls concerning reported exposure to kratom (3). To assess the impact of kratom, CDC analyzed data from the State Unintentional Drug Overdose Reporting System (SUDORS)

....
Among the known side effects of this “herbal supplement” is seizures. You can play “bet your wings” all you want, but the risk of kidney or liver damage is high, and even one seizure and it is unlikely you will ever again fly legally as a commercial pilot.

Last edited by Excargodog; 05-15-2019 at 07:36 AM.
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Old 05-15-2019, 07:57 AM
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https://www.consumerreports.org/diet...r-with-kratom/

Update: On April 3, the Food and Drug Administration released the final results of heavy metals testing on 30 kratom products, following up on an initial announcement made in November. "The analysis found significant levels of lead and nickel at concentrations that exceed safe exposure for oral daily drug intake," the agency said in a statement. "Based on these test results, the typical long-term kratom user could potentially develop heavy metal poisoning, which could include nervous system or kidney damage, anemia, high blood pressure, and/or increased risk of certain cancers." (The full list of tested products and results is available online.)

Scientists from the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) found dangerously high levels of heavy metals, including lead, in kratom products, the agency announced on November 27.

Kratom is an herbal substance that some consumers use to treat pain, mood disorders such as anxiety and depression, and addiction, as well as to ease opioid withdrawal.

Previously, the FDA warned that components of kratom act like opioids and that certain kratom products were highly contaminated with salmonella, prompting a mandatory recall. Now, the FDA is warning consumers that regular use of some of these products could lead to heavy-metal poisoning, which can cause a variety of serious health problems.

MORE ON KRATOM
Salmonella Outbreak in Kratom Products
The Dangers of Taking Kratom
“The findings identifying heavy metals in kratom only strengthen our public health warnings around this substance, and concern for the health and safety of Americans using it,” FDA Commissioner Scott Gottlieb said in a statement.

Kratom’s legal status is currently in limbo, with bans and restrictions in place in some states. Federally, the FDA says, the substance can’t currently be legally marketed as a drug or a supplement. The Drug Enforcement Agency (DEA) previously announced plans to list the active ingredients in the plant as Schedule I substances, like cannabis or LSD, which would make all forms of kratom illegal nationwide. But the agency temporarily reversed that decision and has not yet made a final announcement. (The DEA now lists kratom as a “drug of concern.”)
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Old 05-15-2019, 08:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Excargodog View Post
https://www.consumerreports.org/diet...r-with-kratom/

Update: On April 3, the Food and Drug Administration released the final results of heavy metals testing on 30 kratom products, following up on an initial announcement made in November. "The analysis found significant levels of lead and nickel at concentrations that exceed safe exposure for oral daily drug intake," the agency said in a statement. "Based on these test results, the typical long-term kratom user could potentially develop heavy metal poisoning, which could include nervous system or kidney damage, anemia, high blood pressure, and/or increased risk of certain cancers." (The full list of tested products and results is available online.)

Scientists from the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) found dangerously high levels of heavy metals, including lead, in kratom products, the agency announced on November 27.

Kratom is an herbal substance that some consumers use to treat pain, mood disorders such as anxiety and depression, and addiction, as well as to ease opioid withdrawal.

Previously, the FDA warned that components of kratom act like opioids and that certain kratom products were highly contaminated with salmonella, prompting a mandatory recall. Now, the FDA is warning consumers that regular use of some of these products could lead to heavy-metal poisoning, which can cause a variety of serious health problems.

MORE ON KRATOM
Salmonella Outbreak in Kratom Products
The Dangers of Taking Kratom
“The findings identifying heavy metals in kratom only strengthen our public health warnings around this substance, and concern for the health and safety of Americans using it,” FDA Commissioner Scott Gottlieb said in a statement.

Kratom’s legal status is currently in limbo, with bans and restrictions in place in some states. Federally, the FDA says, the substance can’t currently be legally marketed as a drug or a supplement. The Drug Enforcement Agency (DEA) previously announced plans to list the active ingredients in the plant as Schedule I substances, like cannabis or LSD, which would make all forms of kratom illegal nationwide. But the agency temporarily reversed that decision and has not yet made a final announcement. (The DEA now lists kratom as a “drug of concern.”)
Sounds like you are a google expert now on it, and carrying the FDA water for them..

To be fair when I first heard of it, I was equally taken in by the FDA and other more anecdotal stories about it. Until I actually started reading the science on it from actual studies done by scientists and universities. One thing I found was that it does not affect the receptor (either kappa or delta) that affects repspiratory system, like opiates...which is why there never has been a death reported that was attributable to UNADULTERATED Kratom, taken by itself. When you actually drill down on every death, you find there were opioids in the system of the victim as well as other drugs. Usually stoners experimenting mixing drugs with Kratom for greater high effects. You’ll have to read all thes stuff in the link I posted. (Daunting task), but good for rainy day layovers.
That’s why opioids kill, it suppresses respiratory nerves, person just stops breathing.

What Kratom really needs is regulation, like other supplements, including gmp and testing, so those occasional instances of bacteria or heavy metals don’t find their way into the products as has happened a few times. Three state have recently enacted laws to protect Kratom and require gmp and testing. More will follow as the science wins out over hysteria and the DEA looking to replace the Marijuana bogey man, and keep their funding.

In the mean time, it would be ill-advised for a pilot to take it, as it might show up as an opiate in the pee test (maybe..I dunno). But I do want to see my friend Pam be able to continue to have access to it. It has saved her life, and others from what I hear.

She buys only from a known source who does insure purity and test every shipment.


Read the available studies and docs on the links I provided. Hopefully no one you care about will ever have a need to get off pain meds, while relying on the FDA (FAA of medicine world).

Oh, if you don want to bother with all the reading, try watching “Leaf of Faith”.,I think it is on Amazon.

Last edited by BMEP100; 05-15-2019 at 08:31 PM. Reason: Added video ref.
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Old 05-15-2019, 10:29 PM
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Sounds like you are a conspiracy theorist as well as a naive fool. Don’t let them chemtrails get you.


Pharmacognosy - the science of drug products from plants and other natural sources is not rocket science.

Plants don’t create these substances - generally alkaloids - because they wish to help mankind. They generally evolve these substances as a protective mechanism to poison or otherwise discourage animals that would otherwise eat them in much the same way that fugu (pufferfish) evolved the ability to concentrate tetrodotoxin to poison anything eating it. In the case of Kratom, Mitragynine is only one of approximately 40 varying stereoisomers of alkaloids found in it, and these alkaloids are variable in concentration and proportion from plant to plant. No actual standardization is possible because nobody knows which (if any) of these alkaloids is the (most) active ingredient. And every batch is different. AND NOBODY CAN STANDARDIZE A MIXTURE OF 40 COMPOUNDS.

Now you can keep citing cases like the “lady you have known for decades,” which any biostatistician would tell you constitutes an essentially meaningless “n of one” experiment, but all you demonstrate by such claims is your own ignorance. And I don't really mind you wasting your money or imperiling your own health buying worthless (or in this case potentially harmful) supplements but you are promulgating this idiocy on a board for airline pilots where encouraging others to follow the idiocy (or doing it yourself while flying) places the public at risk. That’s my gripe.

So go ahead and use. But when you have your seizures or your liver rots or your kidneys give out, don’t come whining about it. You made your choice, and wow, you sure will show those evil FDA scientists.

Come to think of it, if you go international, don’t bother with that yellow fever immunization either, that’s just an evil plot of theirs too no doubt. And the case-mortality rate for yellow fever actually isn’t much more than 20%.
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Old 05-16-2019, 05:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Excargodog View Post
Sounds like you are a conspiracy theorist as well as a naive fool. Don’t let them chemtrails get you.
:rolleyes
I don’t use it, but someday may need it. I hope the right to use alternative therapies for personal health remains, as it has for a couple hundred years....

Just like your right to be an anonymous jerk in public.

I’m glad the food and drug nazi’s have people like you being a public advocate.
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Old 05-16-2019, 06:23 AM
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Originally Posted by BMEP100 View Post

What Kratom really needs is regulation, like other supplements,..

Originally Posted by BMEP100 View Post

I’m glad the food and drug nazi’s have people like you being a public advocate.

The shrinks call this “cognitive dissonance” when they are being polite. “Irrationality” when they are being less polite.

It’s also a textbook example of Godwin’s Law.
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Old 05-16-2019, 06:47 AM
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Sledding like that, in pajamas and bare feet, can be dangerous.

Especially on rainbows. A lady I have known for decades says they can be sharp.




I visited the American Kratom Association web site, linked above. I was curious about the orgnization: was it a scientific body composed of researchers who were promoting a product based on their efforts, and who were willing to hang their reputations on the line, or was it an organization made up of a bunch of wuffos who had nothing to do with anything but promoting their flavor of the day?

Turns out it's the latter. Visit the link "Leadership," and you find that Chairman of the Board Herman was a hotel and investment banker. The treasurer and secretary was in marketing. Board member Graham is an accountant. Board member Bake is a venture capitalist with a background in marketing. Executive Director Candland has an "extensive business background." A running clock at the bottom of the page advises that it's been 274 days since the FDA refused to meet with them.

A little more reading will reveal that the AKA established itself for branding, to require all kratom manufacturers and sellers to come to it to get a branded AKA Seal, as one who holds the AKA approval for their "Good Manufacturing Process."

"It is only through the generosity of individual donors and volunteers that we have been able to fight anti-kratom legislation throughout the united states."

A nonprofit organized by marketers, agenda driven and selling a brand. That's the source one should look to for a whole picture and better understanding, before ingesting a potentially lethal herbal drug.

Last edited by JohnBurke; 05-16-2019 at 07:07 AM.
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