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Old 02-06-2019, 08:19 PM   #11  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Excargodog View Post
So you had an accident driving while intoxicated, ended up with a TBI, had blood work in the ER that was “suspiciously” high, to the extent that it was STILL high the next day? And you somehow believe because you were never really CHARGED with a DUI that the THREE physicians you have talked to can’t possibly be correct in saying you are headed for HIMS - if indeed you are even THAT fortunate?
What’s the deal, are you the APC police? I didn’t come for random APC warrior’s personal opinion. I was not driving, I stepped on an electric scooter on private property, fell very quickly and injured myself. The police were there, I didn’t get lucky or “get away” with it.

I never denied drinking far in excess. I am not claiming the BAC was tampered or something. I’m saying it may not be correct, but I was definitely inebriated. I am not denying that HIMS is a very real likelihood or else I wouldn’t be here in the first place. My question is does anyone know of any situation like this? The three AME’s say HIMS, (however none of the AME’s said it was a certainty, with no other incidents to show this was anything other than what it was - a stupid mistake) but they cite specific ARRESTS and DUI related instances. This is a situation in which I over-consumed, big time, and injured myself. There was no arrest because there was no crime.

I’m not a fan of your condescension and overall tone. I came for info, maybe a sprinkling of opinion. I have a career, and I have a life. However I’m glad people like me exist so you can spend your evenings educating us on “how it is.” You are a prime example why most intelligent pilots don’t use this page.
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Old 02-06-2019, 09:37 PM   #12  
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Originally Posted by dmk1984 View Post
What’s the deal, are you the APC police? I didn’t come for random APC warrior’s personal opinion.
Au contraire. That is PRECISELY what you did. It’s a public forum and you told your story, apparently hoping that one or more “random APC warrior’s” personal opinion would reinforce your denial. It didn’t and you are now demonstrating further defensiveness and denial.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dmk1984 View Post
I was not driving, I stepped on an electric scooter on private property, fell very quickly and injured myself. The police were there, I didn’t get lucky or “get away” with it.
Nobody accused you of breaking a law. Having a serious alcohol problem DOES NOT REQUIRE YOU TO HAVE BROKEN A LAW. Having a serious alcohol problem is a medical condition that happens - unless appropriately and SUCCESSFULLY treated - to be disqualifying MEDICALLY for flying.

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Originally Posted by dmk1984 View Post
I never denied drinking far in excess. I am not claiming the BAC was tampered or something. I’m saying it may not be correct, but I was definitely inebriated.
Any lab test “may not be correct.” But TWO lab tests, consistent with your symptoms, are going to BE ASSUMED BY THE FAA TO BE CORRECT absent COMPELLING evidence to the contrary.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dmk1984 View Post
I am not denying that HIMS is a very real likelihood or else I wouldn’t be here in the first place. My question is does anyone know of any situation like this?
yes. I know of at least three cases of pilots who had drinking problems identified through hospitalizations not involving DUIs or any lawbreaking whatsoever. Two military and one civilian.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dmk1984 View Post
The three AME’s say HIMS, (however none of the AME’s said it was a certainty, with no other incidents to show this was anything other than what it was - a stupid mistake) but they cite specific ARRESTS and DUI related instances.
They are unable to say ANYTHING with certainty because IT IS NOT THEIR CALL TO MAKE. It is the FAAs call and based upon the information you provided they can do nothing but defer your case to the FAA. The FAA will require full details of the hospitalization and they will judge you by that paperwork

Quote:
Originally Posted by dmk1984 View Post
This is a situation in which I over-consumed, big time, and injured myself. There was no arrest because there was no crime.
Again, THERE DOES NOT NEED TO BE AN ARREST OR A CRIME. The FAA definition of substance abuse IS NOT the DSM definition. It includes:
Quote:
Misuse of a substance that the Federal Air Surgeon, based on case history and appropriate, qualified medical judgment relating to the substance involved, finds:
(i) Makes the person unable to safely perform the duties or exercise the privileges of the airman certificate applied for or held; or
(ii) May reasonably be expected, for the maximum duration of the airman medical certificate applied for or held, to make the person unable to perform those duties or exercise those privileges
If you do not believe your case meets these criteria, after hearing from three AMEs that it did, then you are deluding yourself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dmk1984 View Post
I’m not a fan of your condescension and overall tone. I came for info, maybe a sprinkling of opinion.
Well, you’ve got it. Info AND opinion. Not condescension but simply treating you like an adult and telling you the truth. You may wish the truth were different, but it isn’t. You are in denial.


Quote:
Originally Posted by dmk1984 View Post
I have a career, and I have a life. However I’m glad people like me exist so you can spend your evenings educating us on “how it is.” You are a prime example why most intelligent pilots don’t use this page.
Except you HAVE used this forum and you have used it in the past, and from your past postings anyone can ascertain where you are currently working in that career, including your own HR people and CP, and it won’t take them 15 minutes to know who you are.

Now you can handle this one of two ways. If they had you down for Head injury with loss of consciousness with TBI you are probably grounded for six months anyway. Now you can continue in denial until the end of that time, try to get your physical back without going through the HIMS process and only then when they turn you down make the decision if you are going to go through the process and yes, as Rickair indicated, probably either have to give up alcohol or give up flying altogether, or make that decision now while your career is on hold anyway. And if the alcohol is more important to you than the career, you might as well put it off.

But if you are going to have a career in aviation you are going to have to stop the denial and stop seeking support for that denial here in this forum where you indicate intelligent pilots don’t go, and deal with your problem in the only manner that gives you a fair chance of actually KEEPING that career you’ve worked so hard to get.

So it’s over to you, your life, your career. Nobody but you can make that decision. I hope for your sake and for the sake of that family that cares for you and who have made the sacrifices right along with you and who - yeah, deserves to enjoy with you the fruits of those labors - that you make a rational choice. And denial is NOT a rational choice.
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Old 02-06-2019, 09:44 PM   #13  
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Hi, I am sure you are on the defensive but what these two people write are pretty much right. It sounds like you are in a bit of trouble.
It may not be that you were caught drinking on a plane or in a car but I have heard people getting dui for riding a bicycle a “stretch” imo or in a tractor. If you had been caught riding that scooter it would have been a dui in a the eyes of the law. You just got taken to the hospital. Very lucky. Or not Tbi?

I realize you were drinking and made a major mistake, it doesn’t seem huge because you sobered up and heck what’s the big deal? Yeah it kind of was according to the docs. I realize you think the shoe doesn’t fit. Your words. Testing high positive the next day as a bac means yes you were that intoxicated. First things doctors do in any situation like yours is draw blood and test immediately for drugs and bac levels. Standard protocol, you can request the initial lab results but it was all done as blood related event because possibly you were not conscious. It will be probably be very high that it will shock you. They did nothing suspicious.

Anyway it doesn’t matter because the 1st post claim suspicion of the bac results and now you are attacking them for being Apc police.
They gave you good advice, esp Rick air.

I will give you a good piece of advice and I highly recommend it. I Would read “Flyin Drunk” by Joe Balzer. It is a good read. I did speak with him on the phone last year. These stories are real.
It is a very good story and he is a solid man.
Rick Air is right.

Good luck man
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Old 02-07-2019, 12:49 AM   #14  
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I have a career, and I have a life.
That remains to be seen, doesn't it?
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Old 02-07-2019, 05:38 AM   #15  
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Originally Posted by Excargodog View Post
Au contraire. That is PRECISELY what you did. It’s a public forum and you told your story, apparently hoping that one or more “random APC warrior’s” personal opinion would reinforce your denial. It didn’t and you are now demonstrating further defensiveness and denial.



Nobody accused you of breaking a law. Having a serious alcohol problem DOES NOT REQUIRE YOU TO HAVE BROKEN A LAW. Having a serious alcohol problem is a medical condition that happens - unless appropriately and SUCCESSFULLY treated - to be disqualifying MEDICALLY for flying.



Any lab test “may not be correct.” But TWO lab tests, consistent with your symptoms, are going to BE ASSUMED BY THE FAA TO BE CORRECT absent COMPELLING evidence to the contrary.

yes. I know of at least three cases of pilots who had drinking problems identified through hospitalizations not involving DUIs or any lawbreaking whatsoever. Two military and one civilian.



They are unable to say ANYTHING with certainty because IT IS NOT THEIR CALL TO MAKE. It is the FAAs call and based upon the information you provided they can do nothing but defer your case to the FAA. The FAA will require full details of the hospitalization and they will judge you by that paperwork



Again, THERE DOES NOT NEED TO BE AN ARREST OR A CRIME. The FAA definition of substance abuse IS NOT the DSM definition. It includes:


If you do not believe your case meets these criteria, after hearing from three AMEs that it did, then you are deluding yourself.

Well, you’ve got it. Info AND opinion. Not condescension but simply treating you like an adult and telling you the truth. You may wish the truth were different, but it isn’t. You are in denial.




Except you HAVE used this forum and you have used it in the past, and from your past postings anyone can ascertain where you are currently working in that career, including your own HR people and CP, and it won’t take them 15 minutes to know who you are.

Now you can handle this one of two ways. If they had you down for Head injury with loss of consciousness with TBI you are probably grounded for six months anyway. Now you can continue in denial until the end of that time, try to get your physical back without going through the HIMS process and only then when they turn you down make the decision if you are going to go through the process and yes, as Rickair indicated, probably either have to give up alcohol or give up flying altogether, or make that decision now while your career is on hold anyway. And if the alcohol is more important to you than the career, you might as well put it off.

But if you are going to have a career in aviation you are going to have to stop the denial and stop seeking support for that denial here in this forum where you indicate intelligent pilots don’t go, and deal with your problem in the only manner that gives you a fair chance of actually KEEPING that career you’ve worked so hard to get.

So it’s over to you, your life, your career. Nobody but you can make that decision. I hope for your sake and for the sake of that family that cares for you and who have made the sacrifices right along with you and who - yeah, deserves to enjoy with you the fruits of those labors - that you make a rational choice. And denial is NOT a rational choice.


While it may suck to hear, Excargodog gives a blunt, but well-researched answer. Unfortunately, you’re along for the ride on this one. I would suggest that if you want to keep your job you be honest with yourself and all those involved. It’s something that the airline will definitely be looking for.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Old 02-08-2019, 05:54 AM   #16  
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My advice wait and see what happens. I had a buddy that failed a Dot test (alcohol) and the FAA let it slide the first time. There is more to this story but the point is that they may or may not put you in HIMS. He eventually ended up in HIMS after I went to bat for him the first time and found out later he was not completely truthful with me after the second incident. The other thing is please ask your self if you have drinking problem. I found out through watching him go through all this that denial is one of the biggest steps to overcome.
This Forum is full of self rightous people that have never drank too much or made a mistake. This forum lost all credibility when the moderator changed the title of a previous post of mine. Good luck and hope everything works out but don't put too much faith in advice from a forum.
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Old 02-08-2019, 07:29 AM   #17  
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This forum lost all credibility when the moderator changed the title of a previous post of mine.
Yes, total cheap shot. But this was always less moderated forum than JV tit for tat. Of which I'm guilty. Most of us have known those who don't imbibe habitually but when they do, maybe the night ends with a pair of wet pants. Maybe something else happens, not as amusing. HIMS incorporates the AA model if I understand correctly. Don't personally know any HIMS recovered pilots. Been to an AA meeting, read the book. Works for many. Not much for some others.
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Old 02-08-2019, 07:45 AM   #18  
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This Forum is full of self rightous people that have never drank too much or made a mistake.
Grammar aside, you're attempting to say that not drinking makes one arrogant?

You really can't comprehend that your statement is one of arrogance?
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Old 02-08-2019, 11:14 AM   #19  
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Originally Posted by Excargodog View Post
Au contraire. That is PRECISELY what you did. It’s a public forum and you told your story, apparently hoping that one or more “random APC warrior’s” personal opinion would reinforce your denial. It didn’t and you are now demonstrating further defensiveness and denial.
I think he came here for the opinion of the women’s temperance league. And he got it.
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Old 02-08-2019, 11:44 AM   #20  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bucknut View Post
My advice wait and see what happens. I had a buddy that failed a Dot test (alcohol) and the FAA let it slide the first time. There is more to this story but the point is that they may or may not put you in HIMS. He eventually ended up in HIMS after I went to bat for him the first time and found out later he was not completely truthful with me after the second incident. The other thing is please ask your self if you have drinking problem. I found out through watching him go through all this that denial is one of the biggest steps to overcome.
This Forum is full of self rightous people that have never drank too much or made a mistake. This forum lost all credibility when the moderator changed the title of a previous post of mine. Good luck and hope everything works out but don't put too much faith in advice from a forum.
Thank you for providing an example of a situation at least partly similar to mine and some valuable advice. Obviously I'm not here to convince anyone my side of the story, as no one knows me and there's zero point. The reason I came looking for similar occurrences is because of all the random info and opinions people provide me. This was a very strange and out of character accident, so everyone that knows me personally can't believe it happened at all. All my pilot friends flatly cannot believe me when I tell them that I think there's a high probability that I'll be required to do HIMS. My ex-Chief Pilot, my AME and every one of my friends all say there's no way this isolated incident away from work results in HIMS. But I find that people who don't know me typically say it will (and of course on here they also like to sprinkle in a large dose of "holier than thou.") Which is telling in-and-of itself because if this looks bad to someone who doesn't know me then I tend to believe that perspective since that's where the medical board will be coming from.

I have accepted the high probability of HIMS and other than the money and the inconvenience I don't have a problem with it. I haven't had a drink in the 4 months since this happened because alcohol is bad for brain injury recovery. I can quit forever if need be. I don't WANT to, because it's not a vice for me. No one close to me has taken this obviously GOLDEN opportunity to say "you know what, maybe you have a drinking problem?" But I would certainly do it if that's what the feds want. But like I said, my pilot friends, my wife, my AME, my mom -- no one can believe this, and no one believes that HIMS is possible, or necessary. I mistakenly thought I could find some examples of alcohol related injuries and their disposition here. In hindsight I should have known better, it's too hard for some to resist the opportunity this forum provides to sit in judgement of others.

Just a quick follow up, and feel free to message me if you want -- You said you "went to bat" for your friend, how so? With the FAA?
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