That's all true, but LCA at 200 cost more than an FO at 300 so I'am sure more than just the company was on board with it. What is meant by touching FO flying vs. actual FO flying?

Ok, the union DID negotiate it, not the training dept.

allowing them to cancel 100's of flights would've helped us a ton......
I am far from a company guy but you need to realize we are there for a reason. They could've offered 400% and some moron(you) would still want more.

They used the CCP language for the "holiday agreement". So if you picked up a day that was deemed critical by them you were paid 200% for anything that day touched. Pick up one day, attach it to an existing 4 day and now you have a 5 day trip at 200%.

They told the training dept that those rules would apply to any FO flying that touched an original trip except that it would be 225%. So one day FO flying touching an existing 4 day would be 225 for the 5 days.(there are emails stating exactly this from the company)

After xmas/new years was over the company only paid 200...... "We never agreed to that". So the flying was covered and the company pocketed the extra 25%.

Exactly, because "union bosses" always write the contracts, just hand it over to the company, and that's that. No bargaining or negotiation involved. They just write the contract with some kind of fat kickback involved for not including holiday pay.

Or perhaps, when they were negotiating this contract over 4 years ago, the then Negotiating Committee decided that they wanted to spend their bargaining capital elsewhere, rather than have to give up something else for holiday pay.

Naw, that can't be right; it's gotta be kickbacks.

This may be the wrong thread, bit since a recent topic of discussion had included it, what's the story on working as a pilot at PSA and unions?
Are they voluntary?
Can you say what the rates are?
Are there requirements to join?

The military isn't big on unions, god knows it's one of the professions that could use one. HA!

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It is automatic. When you go to work at an airline, you are a part of the union. They take a small percentage of your pay (1.95% or so). For that, they protect you from management (in theory). They work on contract issues and labor disputes. They also have lobbyists that fight for laws try to protect our jobs.

I was never a fan of unions, but with the RLA, the company holds all of the cards and the pilots hold none. In this industry, a union is essential. We have dozens of pilots that the company would have fired (as do all airlines) that the union has protected.

As far as what they do with the money that they collect from you, it will make you mad.

You can opt out and refuse to join, but you will pay an administrative fee that will be about the same as the dues, but get no legal protection from them.

Here's a scenario... you are a captain and are given an airplane to fly for a 2 hour trip with no working lavatory. The company says that you should fly it, but you disagree. You refuse to do that to your passengers. The company attempts to try to persuade you, and you tell them to call you are going to call your union rep and the MEC Chairman calls the Chief Pilot and backs you up. If you get called in to the Chief's office, they Union will be right there with you and make sure that you are protected. I know someone at SkyWest that was fired for this exact situation a little over a year ago and he had no union to back him up. At an ALPA carrier, he would have never even been disciplined for this.

Why do you think that, specifically?




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Glad you asked that. The answer is NO you cannot be forced to join a union. The Supreme Court ruled that a few years ago. However they also stated that the union has the right to collect contract negotiation cost since you benifit from the contact.
So quickly the "union bosses" decided that the negotiation cost would be 1.9% and dues to be a member are also 1.9%, so there's no reason to not be a member. .
Since Mr. Numbers in the posts above is so quick to play defense I wonder how much "negotiating capital" the union had to give to get that little gem in there. Also the one that says the company can fire you for being delequent on dues.

Your missing the point man, company's in America pay holiday pay. They're not allergic to it, it's quite common. The people who don't want you to get it are the PIlOTS who negotiate the deal. They take that cost and distribute it to themselves. The company could care less who gets the buck.

Just because you say something on the internet doesn't make it true.

I'm failing to see how pilot negotiators just throw themselves extra money for not negotiating a benefit. Are these pilots themselves also missing out on holiday pay? Aren't these deal then ratified by the larger pilot group?

You're also overlooking the huge difference in lifestyle between most workers in America and airline pilots. Whereas your average cube monkey is lucky to get their two weeks of vacation a year, most 121 pilots can create a week off in a month without much difficulty, without touching vacation.

If you're going to make a generalized comparison, realize that comparing monkeys to monkey wrenches doesn't actually mean anything, even though they have the same word in there.