RIP
12-01-2020, 08:19 AM
#221
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2019
Posts: 147
Originally Posted by JayBee
I'd say extend that to the entire regional market. Ya'll sell yourselves way too short. I was recently entertaining a job offer back in the helicopter industry. Here's my back of the napkin math -
4yr Regional Captain pay scale - ~$83k, 11 days off month, 4 days month/ 48 days per year commuting for 281 total days on and 84 days off for a day rate of $360/day for flying up to 76 passengers per flight.
0yr 135 Helo Captain pay scale ~$61k, 14days on/ 14 days off schedule, 26 days per year commuting for 208 days on and 157 days off for a day rate of $335/day for flying up to 7 passengers per flight.
Almost comparable day rate for flying significantly less passengers, for a new hire pay scale... regional pay is pathetic.
Flight hour and other bonuses still being payed out at the 135 operator too. A little overtime pay at 1.5 pay and you'll match the yearly pay scale if you want to. Obviously, commuting days on off will vary for each individual. Premium pay is still available to be had at the Regional - if you're senior, in most cases - but requires navigating the morass of Flica, what was my original day off, etc, etc., not a game I personally play as a commuter, whereas at the 135 its "Hey you want to work a couple extra days?" "Sure". Just trying to be fair with the comparison.
If anyone ever says your overpaid at the airlines then they are completely full of brown stuff.
4yr Regional Captain pay scale - ~$83k, 11 days off month, 4 days month/ 48 days per year commuting for 281 total days on and 84 days off for a day rate of $360/day for flying up to 76 passengers per flight.
0yr 135 Helo Captain pay scale ~$61k, 14days on/ 14 days off schedule, 26 days per year commuting for 208 days on and 157 days off for a day rate of $335/day for flying up to 7 passengers per flight.
Almost comparable day rate for flying significantly less passengers, for a new hire pay scale... regional pay is pathetic.
Flight hour and other bonuses still being payed out at the 135 operator too. A little overtime pay at 1.5 pay and you'll match the yearly pay scale if you want to. Obviously, commuting days on off will vary for each individual. Premium pay is still available to be had at the Regional - if you're senior, in most cases - but requires navigating the morass of Flica, what was my original day off, etc, etc., not a game I personally play as a commuter, whereas at the 135 its "Hey you want to work a couple extra days?" "Sure". Just trying to be fair with the comparison.
If anyone ever says your overpaid at the airlines then they are completely full of brown stuff.
12-01-2020, 09:37 AM
#223
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2020
Posts: 399
It’s true. As long as you have kids who will fly a jet for nearly free, this will be an issue. I don’t know what the solution is.
A couple years ago, I had a job offer from a corporate/charter outfit flying right seat in a Falcon. No ATP required, low time required. 135 op. 14 on/14 off. Pay was significantly better than the regionals, bonuses included. Ops was a cool dude.
I didn't take it because of the long commute. I figured that living in base was worth the lower pay, so I decided to trudge down the regional path...right into COVID. Kicking myself now. Hindsight is 20/20, sometimes you have to learn things the hard way.
A couple years ago, I had a job offer from a corporate/charter outfit flying right seat in a Falcon. No ATP required, low time required. 135 op. 14 on/14 off. Pay was significantly better than the regionals, bonuses included. Ops was a cool dude.
I didn't take it because of the long commute. I figured that living in base was worth the lower pay, so I decided to trudge down the regional path...right into COVID. Kicking myself now. Hindsight is 20/20, sometimes you have to learn things the hard way.
12-01-2020, 10:16 AM
#224
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2015
Posts: 608
Originally Posted by boxthrower
Most people that worked for Part 135 outfits took a pay decrease going to the regionals. Pilots are their own enemies. They kept flocking to regionals for $19K per year and to me that’s their own fault. Only when the regionals were having issues with staffing did they increase pay rates to a still measly earning. $60-$100K in student loans to make $45K per year as an FO is sad and when it was $19K it was even more sad. Part 135’s paid more than $19K per year in 2013. It’s shiny jet syndrome.
I'm not saying 135 gigs are all that and a bag of chips but I think a lot of us, especially us older ones, are as concerned with quality of life as we are pay. SAP is why I came to PSA. No one can help that Covid happened(except China).
How to convince people what they are worth ? Good question, no limit of people willing to fly just to say they are a pilot...
12-01-2020, 12:49 PM
#225
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2019
Posts: 314
Originally Posted by ACEssXfer
This was status quo as a new FO up until a few years ago. Anyone who says they would rather be furloughed needs a reality check.
12-01-2020, 03:04 PM
#226
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2017
Position: CRJ9 CA
Posts: 4,083
Originally Posted by BurnerAccount69
Some would rather be furloughed, hence the people that voluntarily did it or bypassed recall. If you can find a job making semi comparable pay and not putting up with the abuse, why bother? Everyone's situation is different as you can see from previous posts where some want back in ASAP, others are looking to get out, and others have found better jobs. Its going to be a mixed bag.
12-02-2020, 09:13 AM
#230
Line Holder
Joined APC: Nov 2020
Position: F/O
Posts: 60
If we look at the original title of this thread, it is RIP.
Pilots constantly are last to the table for information and unless you sit in the crew room to hear the rumors we get no briefings on PBS. It is inexcusable to have a candidate for CA rep campaigning on communication about PBS, yet goes to Dayton this week to negotiate the PBS agreement on the pilot's dollar with no communication to the pilots.
I go out to fly today and hear from campaigning candidates how PBS will be pushed through before our council election which CJ is running in. WRONG!!!
PBS is and should be a NO!!!! Under these current circumstances. We can evaluate IF and IF Chapter 11 is explored. Otherwise with such awful flying given to us by AA PBS will not produce nearly what SAP and line bidding does.
Post COVID maybe we find some leverage.
We have to protect our pilot jobs at PSA and come out the back side of COVID stronger in unity than before. But to continue with secret PBS talks without the pilots input is unfortunate and I truly hope we all look at how the NC and even now a campaigning candidate are continuing to keep the pilots in the dark.
Why would we want to vote in another representative who keeps secrets.
There will be NO PBS BEFORE ANY ELECTION. Well there wont be if our reps do what they have preached.
Pilots constantly are last to the table for information and unless you sit in the crew room to hear the rumors we get no briefings on PBS. It is inexcusable to have a candidate for CA rep campaigning on communication about PBS, yet goes to Dayton this week to negotiate the PBS agreement on the pilot's dollar with no communication to the pilots.
I go out to fly today and hear from campaigning candidates how PBS will be pushed through before our council election which CJ is running in. WRONG!!!
PBS is and should be a NO!!!! Under these current circumstances. We can evaluate IF and IF Chapter 11 is explored. Otherwise with such awful flying given to us by AA PBS will not produce nearly what SAP and line bidding does.
Post COVID maybe we find some leverage.
We have to protect our pilot jobs at PSA and come out the back side of COVID stronger in unity than before. But to continue with secret PBS talks without the pilots input is unfortunate and I truly hope we all look at how the NC and even now a campaigning candidate are continuing to keep the pilots in the dark.
Why would we want to vote in another representative who keeps secrets.
There will be NO PBS BEFORE ANY ELECTION. Well there wont be if our reps do what they have preached.
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