JayBee

Yet every time trip and duty rigs have been brought up over the last few years it gets severely poo poo'ed by the negative Nancys in the union or people in position of influence

skywest and republic are competitors on the eagle brand and therefore are theoretically cheaper or cost neutral (also previously air whisky) and they all have various rigs in their contracts and are still able to be cost competitive... Yet no one in our union thinks it's possible...

Can't see the forest for the trees OR leadership is being lured along with some kind of something...

chrisreedrules

No one in ALPA thinks trip/duty rigs are bad. Quite the contrary. Both have basically been non-starters with the company though. At this point I don’t think it matters much one way or the other. What we have will likely stay. I don’t think the company is serious about getting PBS done. I think they recognize that it’s going nowhere but they can’t go back to AA without saying they tried and maybe they can blame the pilots if it doesn’t work out... Who knows...

Approach1260

Yeah I think they overall miscalculated. It felt like they were acting like PBS was something we'd all like to have, when everyone I've talked to is fine with keeping things as they are unless we get a really impressive offer.

272922

I think the miscalculation on management's part was thinking ST could deliver the same kind of wins for the company that TR could when he wasn't even able to operate a conference call or write cogent emails. There's a reason that TR had to hold a conference call to get LOA 14 ratified literally the day prior to an actual lawyer getting himself elected to the MEC. The company putting him in Flight Ops as an SME while simultaneously pulling down full time FPL from ALPA certainly didn't help anyone's credibility.

The more amusing managerial miscalculation is somehow thinking that the VP of HR being involved in negotiations was somehow going to magically fix all that. Perhaps the truest thing that ST ever wrote during his double dipping tenure as MEC Chair is that trying to negotiate with someone who didn't know anything about the contract or pilot working conditions wasn't very productive.

Happyflyer

Well were not to precovid monthly block hours like we were. We also have the same amount of pilots on the list and less airplanes than precovid. Stands to reason that less work with same amount of pilots will reduce pilot efficiency.

The company said all aircraft have schedules on them and there are no scheduled “idled/parked” aircraft. They did not say each aircraft is being scheduled for MAX utilization.

When you have an underutilized fleet you have underutilized pilots unless you furlough.

Happyflyer

The company doesn’t want PBS, the company only wants SAP its all they have ever wanted.

They want PSA to be just like Piedmont and Envoy, hardlines with no SAP.

The union/any pilot with a brain understands that is a complete non starter, and the only conceivable way to delete SAP is to go to PBS. The senior/any one with a brain will never accept hardlines and no SAP.

The company understands this and “wants” to negotiate PBS cost neutral for “conflict bidding” on training and vacation giving the union $0 negotiating capital for SAP.

Basically what could Envoy and Piedmont produce negotiating hardlines for PBS, but cost neutral to the company.

They proved this was their intention when they made their offer in 2020 to delete SAP first, THEN negotiate hardlines for PBS. It even said if negotiations failed to produce suitable terms then hardlines would stay and SAP would be subject to a green grid.

Happyflyer

PSA is not offering “the right work rules” Therefore no matter how much you like it wherever you are at, that will not be what PSA gets.

If PSA were able to bundle the cost of SAP into PBS they could get the “right work rules”, but a high tide lifts all boats. Envoy and Piedmont would want to switch to PSA’s PBS and they don’t have the contractual equity via quid pro quo.

They would eventually be in front of an independent mediator who wouldn’t care how PSA got PBS. 3 other large regionals have it, and if PSA sells SAP for it they’d be a fourth, therefore the mediator would easily justify Envoy and Piedmont PBS on par with the industry.

This would force AA to pay for SAP at all 3 WO regionals because once it’s sold for PBS gains it’s no longer an outliner situation.

I would guess AA would offer SAP for 1% flow, but no dollar value to PBS.

The PSA union expects high water to lift all boats, and if Envoy and Piedmont are already at or near 1% flow, then it’s a matter of time for PSA to “party up”, same way Envoy and Piedmont “partied up” when PSA announced new pay rates.

captande

We don’t even know what the work rules going into PBS are, there’s been no information shared. So you can’t sit here and say it’s garbage, what we currently have is garbage unless you’re lucky enough to hold a line or senior enough to say “no” to all available assignments on reserve. I’m all ears to see what they have to offer. Just about anything is better than the gulag I’ve been through since making it back to the CA seat after downgrade.

Happyflyer

There is no reason to share info. The only possible outcome is you like it or you don’t like it.

It isn’t done, so if you like it there is time for you to not like it; if you don’t like it there is time for you too like it. A snapshot opinion means nothing.

If you like it you dial up pressure on your reps to settle now, if you don’t like it you dial up pressure to push harder.

Either way pressure on reps is dialed up in both directions. How is that helpful?

All 2,000 pilots think their own interest need to be served before everyone else’s, and will settle as soon as that happens.

Happyflyer

To a certain extent the contract carriers bid their flying and therefore bid the departures that are efficient enough to cover the rigs/minday that they are forced to pay their pilots.

Does anyone really believe PSA intentionally builds inefficient parings thus requiring more pilots on the payroll?

It was always common to see inefficient trips in round2 after being broken/rebuilt from training and vacation drops.

When you start seeing inefficient trips in round 1 it’s either intentional because they want more pilots on payroll to have higher cost, or it’s the best they can build with what AA assigns to them.