PSA TA going to pass?
09-25-2013, 08:53 AM
#32
Banned
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Posts: 8,350
Originally Posted by PeopleMover90
Great post and couldn't agree more. No one is thrilled with the TA. It's a crap sandwich. But exactly what skyx bomb said, immature comments are not appreciated.
Both being the case, might I request you NOT apply to AA. The last thing we need is more irrational capitulators who will toss anyone and everyone under the bus for personal gain like yourself poisoning this well. Hopefully, you'll live with the gastrointestinal distress of your chosen meal for many decades to come.
You'll have earned it.
09-25-2013, 08:58 AM
#33
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2010
Posts: 366
Originally Posted by eaglefly
It seems any position that is against the ratification of the feces sandwich you plan to willing eat is "immature". That's absurd. It also seems your hideously misguided logic extends beyond rationalizing the consumption of your impending lunch.
Both being the case, might I request you NOT apply to AA. The last thing we need is more irrational capitulators who will toss anyone and everyone under the bus for personal gain like yourself poisoning this well. Hopefully, you'll live with the gastrointestinal distress of your chosen meal for many decades to come.
You'll have earned it.
Both being the case, might I request you NOT apply to AA. The last thing we need is more irrational capitulators who will toss anyone and everyone under the bus for personal gain like yourself poisoning this well. Hopefully, you'll live with the gastrointestinal distress of your chosen meal for many decades to come.
You'll have earned it.
09-25-2013, 09:12 AM
#34
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: Hot tub for now
Posts: 1,203
Originally Posted by pagey
We don't have 190 rates. I'm pretty sure the new American scope has a 76 seat cap(non grandfathered)? I'm not sure on that so don't quote me /tear me up if it is incorrect.
Our 170/175 rates are comparable to republic and compass at our cap. Unfortunately those 2 companies will continue to accrue longevity raises while we would not.
Our FO rates are better than republic but are a buck or two below compass at max longevity.
Also Zap, and this is important. These negotiations were not for new rates. We are keeping the rates we JUST negotiated for 4 years and passed 5 months ago.
Our 170/175 rates are comparable to republic and compass at our cap. Unfortunately those 2 companies will continue to accrue longevity raises while we would not.
Our FO rates are better than republic but are a buck or two below compass at max longevity.
Also Zap, and this is important. These negotiations were not for new rates. We are keeping the rates we JUST negotiated for 4 years and passed 5 months ago.
The Union is outright lying to you about this TA. I don't know what they have to gain but it has divided the pilot group.
Our new current contract will be amendable in 5 years. With this TA, it extends the pay rates for an additional 5 years. THATS 10 years at concessionary rates!!! WT F?
F/O's will cap out at year 3-4 pay.
Captains will cap out at year 12 pay.
Now ordinarily this would be fine if everyone stopped at year 12. But they won't. The senior pilots will keep their 18 year rate. It can be as much as $20k/year. For a 10 year Captain today it would almost be 1/2 million dollar loss if you include 401k.
The TA also doesn't say if the airplanes will be growth or not.
Without growth, f/o's get nothing. No faster upgrade, no movement, nothing.
Worse yet the company can replace 2 200's for 1 900.
Reserve Captains get downgraded and senior f/o's are in the right seat for 10 years.
Don't think it can't happen?
Prove to me that the airplanes are growth.
Prove to me that every f/o on property will upgrade.
This TA is a horrible horrible idea. Our MEC will be fighting for his job when the dust settles.
09-25-2013, 09:27 AM
#35
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Position: Left
Posts: 1,809
Originally Posted by seafeye
And you need to read the TA.
The Union is outright lying to you about this TA. I don't know what they have to gain but it has divided the pilot group.
Our new current contract will be amendable in 5 years. With this TA, it extends the pay rates for an additional 5 years. THATS 10 years at concessionary rates!!! WT F?
F/O's will cap out at year 3-4 pay.
Captains will cap out at year 12 pay.
Now ordinarily this would be fine if everyone stopped at year 12. But they won't. The senior pilots will keep their 18 year rate. It can be as much as $20k/year. For a 10 year Captain today it would almost be 1/2 million dollar loss if you include 401k.
The TA also doesn't say if the airplanes will be growth or not.
Without growth, f/o's get nothing. No faster upgrade, no movement, nothing.
Worse yet the company can replace 2 200's for 1 900.
Reserve Captains get downgraded and senior f/o's are in the right seat for 10 years.
Don't think it can't happen?
Prove to me that the airplanes are growth.
Prove to me that every f/o on property will upgrade.
This TA is a horrible horrible idea. Our MEC will be fighting for his job when the dust settles.
The Union is outright lying to you about this TA. I don't know what they have to gain but it has divided the pilot group.
Our new current contract will be amendable in 5 years. With this TA, it extends the pay rates for an additional 5 years. THATS 10 years at concessionary rates!!! WT F?
F/O's will cap out at year 3-4 pay.
Captains will cap out at year 12 pay.
Now ordinarily this would be fine if everyone stopped at year 12. But they won't. The senior pilots will keep their 18 year rate. It can be as much as $20k/year. For a 10 year Captain today it would almost be 1/2 million dollar loss if you include 401k.
The TA also doesn't say if the airplanes will be growth or not.
Without growth, f/o's get nothing. No faster upgrade, no movement, nothing.
Worse yet the company can replace 2 200's for 1 900.
Reserve Captains get downgraded and senior f/o's are in the right seat for 10 years.
Don't think it can't happen?
Prove to me that the airplanes are growth.
Prove to me that every f/o on property will upgrade.
This TA is a horrible horrible idea. Our MEC will be fighting for his job when the dust settles.
All I did was look at our current contract and post the information.
09-25-2013, 09:51 AM
#37
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,838
Generally:
Anything more than 50/50, then it passes 85% +
If it looks 50/50, then it passes 70/30
If people are all ****ed off, it passes 60/40
If people are all ****ed off, throwing chairs, recalling reps, it passes 55/45
Seen the same rodeo many times. Strangely enough, after the vote, and no matter what the final number was, you won't find anyone who voted yes.
Nu
Anything more than 50/50, then it passes 85% +
If it looks 50/50, then it passes 70/30
If people are all ****ed off, it passes 60/40
If people are all ****ed off, throwing chairs, recalling reps, it passes 55/45
Seen the same rodeo many times. Strangely enough, after the vote, and no matter what the final number was, you won't find anyone who voted yes.
Nu
09-25-2013, 09:57 AM
#38
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2008
Position: 717 Sidekick
Posts: 162
Originally Posted by seafeye
And you need to read the TA.
The Union is outright lying to you about this TA. I don't know what they have to gain but it has divided the pilot group.
Our new current contract will be amendable in 5 years. With this TA, it extends the pay rates for an additional 5 years. THATS 10 years at concessionary rates!!! WT F?
F/O's will cap out at year 3-4 pay.
Captains will cap out at year 12 pay.
Now ordinarily this would be fine if everyone stopped at year 12. But they won't. The senior pilots will keep their 18 year rate. It can be as much as $20k/year. For a 10 year Captain today it would almost be 1/2 million dollar loss if you include 401k.
The TA also doesn't say if the airplanes will be growth or not.
Without growth, f/o's get nothing. No faster upgrade, no movement, nothing.
Worse yet the company can replace 2 200's for 1 900.
Reserve Captains get downgraded and senior f/o's are in the right seat for 10 years.
Don't think it can't happen?
Prove to me that the airplanes are growth.
Prove to me that every f/o on property will upgrade.
This TA is a horrible horrible idea. Our MEC will be fighting for his job when the dust settles.
The Union is outright lying to you about this TA. I don't know what they have to gain but it has divided the pilot group.
Our new current contract will be amendable in 5 years. With this TA, it extends the pay rates for an additional 5 years. THATS 10 years at concessionary rates!!! WT F?
F/O's will cap out at year 3-4 pay.
Captains will cap out at year 12 pay.
Now ordinarily this would be fine if everyone stopped at year 12. But they won't. The senior pilots will keep their 18 year rate. It can be as much as $20k/year. For a 10 year Captain today it would almost be 1/2 million dollar loss if you include 401k.
The TA also doesn't say if the airplanes will be growth or not.
Without growth, f/o's get nothing. No faster upgrade, no movement, nothing.
Worse yet the company can replace 2 200's for 1 900.
Reserve Captains get downgraded and senior f/o's are in the right seat for 10 years.
Don't think it can't happen?
Prove to me that the airplanes are growth.
Prove to me that every f/o on property will upgrade.
This TA is a horrible horrible idea. Our MEC will be fighting for his job when the dust settles.
09-25-2013, 10:39 AM
#39
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Position: CE-650
Posts: 397
Originally Posted by NuGuy
Generally:
Anything more than 50/50, then it passes 85% +
If it looks 50/50, then it passes 70/30
If people are all ****ed off, it passes 60/40
If people are all ****ed off, throwing chairs, recalling reps, it passes 55/45
Seen the same rodeo many times. Strangely enough, after the vote, and no matter what the final number was, you won't find anyone who voted yes.
Nu
Anything more than 50/50, then it passes 85% +
If it looks 50/50, then it passes 70/30
If people are all ****ed off, it passes 60/40
If people are all ****ed off, throwing chairs, recalling reps, it passes 55/45
Seen the same rodeo many times. Strangely enough, after the vote, and no matter what the final number was, you won't find anyone who voted yes.
Nu
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