PSA New Hire Class
06-07-2014, 09:38 PM
#311
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Position: Left
Posts: 1,809
Guys I am not upset with PSA pilots for voting in something that protects their future. What I am upset about is how guys continue to defend a contract that was specifically written to under cut other airlines. Your contract is for 10 years 10 years Is a long time to have future pilots unable to do anything about it. What happens if there is no hiring at mainline for what ever reason or there is another accident that really puts the regionals in a better place for pay or work rules. I don't see anything that alpa really got out of this that benefits you guys except for the interview at mainline. You can defend it all you want but in the end it was a contract that has force all other pilot groups from being able to make headways in contract negotiations because the bar has been set. All I ask for from your pilot group is some honest discussion about how your choices have affected everyone else trying to survive this rat race.
There is nothing but blatant honesty and facts.
We didn't vote in a new contract. We voted in LOAs that modified what was originally a mid level regional contract. Fact of the matter is that there is some pretty good stuff in there.
If the industry stagnates everyone is screwed, not just PSA. The scheduling language in our contract makes PSA a decent place to be stuck at.....no one decides to believe this point but it is true.
I'm not discarding the fact that our contract modifications may have an effect on other carriers' negotiations but again, with the restraints of the seniority system and the RLA is it really fair to ask a totally separate group to fall on their swords and be completely shutdown so that other groups can get a few dollar raise?
I understand the big picture implications of something like this but asking a grown adult to completely disregard his/her own family on the chance that some other carrier MIGHT get future improvements is unrealistic at best.
06-07-2014, 11:35 PM
#312
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2009
Position: Airbus 319/320 Captain
Posts: 880
Go back and read my posts.
There is nothing but blatant honesty and facts.
We didn't vote in a new contract. We voted in LOAs that modified what was originally a mid level regional contract. Fact of the matter is that there is some pretty good stuff in there.
If the industry stagnates everyone is screwed, not just PSA. The scheduling language in our contract makes PSA a decent place to be stuck at.....no one decides to believe this point but it is true.
I'm not discarding the fact that our contract modifications may have an effect on other carriers' negotiations but again, with the restraints of the seniority system and the RLA is it really fair to ask a totally separate group to fall on their swords and be completely shutdown so that other groups can get a few dollar raise?
I understand the big picture implications of something like this but asking a grown adult to completely disregard his/her own family on the chance that some other carrier MIGHT get future improvements is unrealistic at best.
There is nothing but blatant honesty and facts.
We didn't vote in a new contract. We voted in LOAs that modified what was originally a mid level regional contract. Fact of the matter is that there is some pretty good stuff in there.
If the industry stagnates everyone is screwed, not just PSA. The scheduling language in our contract makes PSA a decent place to be stuck at.....no one decides to believe this point but it is true.
I'm not discarding the fact that our contract modifications may have an effect on other carriers' negotiations but again, with the restraints of the seniority system and the RLA is it really fair to ask a totally separate group to fall on their swords and be completely shutdown so that other groups can get a few dollar raise?
I understand the big picture implications of something like this but asking a grown adult to completely disregard his/her own family on the chance that some other carrier MIGHT get future improvements is unrealistic at best.
06-08-2014, 03:55 AM
#313
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jun 2013
Posts: 70
Well, I tried to steer this back to the original subject, but it didn't last long. Two opposite viewpoints to my question.
Does it ever stop here? Can't this be a PSA thread - PSA knowledgable people only to answer simple questions? I get it - many of you hate PSA. I've read all the vitriol. Ok, move on now. Some of us want some real answers to the questions. We know all the opinions.
Does it ever stop here? Can't this be a PSA thread - PSA knowledgable people only to answer simple questions? I get it - many of you hate PSA. I've read all the vitriol. Ok, move on now. Some of us want some real answers to the questions. We know all the opinions.
06-08-2014, 06:25 AM
#314
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,240
Be aware that PSA does not have a training department. They have a checking department. Half of the instructors were new hires off the street right into training - and the other half are incompetent pilots hiding in the sim because they cant fly the line.
They give you a stack of manuals in ground school and say "good luck the test is in a week".
The sim consists of the checkride 6 days in a row - if they think you might pass you get signed off. There is no "Training" as you will find at any other airline. But make sure you don't get on the DPE's bad side or get a bulls-eye on your back - they use the PC as a tool to arbitrarily clean house. Unless your on a certain managers "Chosen List" there is a hard limit - despite what some people here say.
You really are better off going anywhere else than PSA. They got the one 900 aircraft on the property to allow the pay freezes to kick in - thats about all your gonna see. They can't staff what they already have now. And the contract that the company agreed to follow is actually more of "guidelines" in the eyes of the company.
They give you a stack of manuals in ground school and say "good luck the test is in a week".
The sim consists of the checkride 6 days in a row - if they think you might pass you get signed off. There is no "Training" as you will find at any other airline. But make sure you don't get on the DPE's bad side or get a bulls-eye on your back - they use the PC as a tool to arbitrarily clean house. Unless your on a certain managers "Chosen List" there is a hard limit - despite what some people here say.
You really are better off going anywhere else than PSA. They got the one 900 aircraft on the property to allow the pay freezes to kick in - thats about all your gonna see. They can't staff what they already have now. And the contract that the company agreed to follow is actually more of "guidelines" in the eyes of the company.
And remember soon it will be AA hiring, not more Airways hiring, and APA might be aware of PSA actions.
06-08-2014, 06:53 AM
#316
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: East coast
Posts: 380
Which is a joke in terms of difficulty, by the way. There have been only two or three senior guys who failed it intentionally. They had no interest in moving on and were just doing it to avoid getting pay capped.
Last edited by Ramprat; 06-08-2014 at 07:17 AM.
06-08-2014, 09:16 AM
#317
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Position: CRJ
Posts: 309
Well, I tried to steer this back to the original subject, but it didn't last long. Two opposite viewpoints to my question.
Does it ever stop here? Can't this be a PSA thread - PSA knowledgable people only to answer simple questions? I get it - many of you hate PSA. I've read all the vitriol. Ok, move on now. Some of us want some real answers to the questions. We know all the opinions.
Does it ever stop here? Can't this be a PSA thread - PSA knowledgable people only to answer simple questions? I get it - many of you hate PSA. I've read all the vitriol. Ok, move on now. Some of us want some real answers to the questions. We know all the opinions.
06-08-2014, 10:22 AM
#319
MB
Joined APC: Jan 2014
Position: Middle seat
Posts: 42
The contract in early 2013 had no meat and potatoes. It gutted what little there was. SDO went from 1.5 to 1.25 with no minimum day. IOE displacements were able to be placed on reserve whereas prior they could not. Stand-ups counted as 2 days for sick but only 1 for pay. Supposed "industry leading" signing bonus didn't apply to almost half the pilot group. Min day is a joke-it doesn't apply to half the pilots either. Insurance went up from prior contract. Premium pay for "critical coverage" only applied if the company declared critical coverage. Flica was supposed to remove schedulings arbitrary rules - but scheduling writes the flica parameters. Both chief pilots are a joke - combined the two of those clowns couldn't fly a kite but they think they know more about flying than a line pilot. (Both chiefs combined have about 3 months line flying at PSA).
Deadhead pay did not go up - deadhead pay was not given for skipped deadheads as it was before. FMLA and military leave were still being ignored and abused by the company. Calling out sick can result in disciplinary letters. And thats just what I can remember offhand.
Almost anybody here (except pagey, meyers, and the alpo con artists that wrote that terrible contract) can probably see that what little meat and potatoes PSA had were gutted by the early 2013 contract. The only good thing about that contract was the increase in hourly pay. Not that it mattered because it was capped 6 months later by the TA. At least a B scale has pay raises - the PSA TA is more like a Z scale.
Oh and I forgot - there is no "Flow-Thru". Theres only a pay capping interview option. Prior to March 2013 usair would hire anywhere from 1 to 6 pilots a month from PSA. After they were limited to 3. And now it must be in seniority order (senior pilots screwing junior pilots again) whereas in the past it did not. Plus there was no seat-lock prior to ALPO giving PSA one.
For those of you interested in some ancient alpo facts, PSA did have an actual flowthrough agreement with alpo and usair. When usair did not want to honor it even though it was in their contract rather than take legal action for it the PSA MEC decided to throw all its eggs into the west pilots basket. That obviously worked out real well didn't it - almost as well as the FFD that they then focused everything on.
06-08-2014, 10:25 AM
#320
MB
Joined APC: Jan 2014
Position: Middle seat
Posts: 42
Well, I tried to steer this back to the original subject, but it didn't last long. Two opposite viewpoints to my question.
Does it ever stop here? Can't this be a PSA thread - PSA knowledgable people only to answer simple questions? I get it - many of you hate PSA. I've read all the vitriol. Ok, move on now. Some of us want some real answers to the questions. We know all the opinions.
Does it ever stop here? Can't this be a PSA thread - PSA knowledgable people only to answer simple questions? I get it - many of you hate PSA. I've read all the vitriol. Ok, move on now. Some of us want some real answers to the questions. We know all the opinions.
Or did you forget ?
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