The pilots flowing from Envoy right now have no bearing on the length of time it will take a new hire at Envoy today.

I'm not why some of you keep saying this. Perhaps you just like to troll. The flow at Envoy is not 16 years, that is how long it took the current pilots to flow. The new hires going over now will depend on AA hiring and their flow agreement which puts it at 6 years.

The upgrades at PSA aren't at 1.5 years for all pilots hired there. It may be 1.5 years or less for those hired with 121 time, but pilots hired with 0 121 time are looking at 3-5 years, depending on how many junior pilots hired after them take upgrades when they aren't eligible. The current flow time from PSA to AA is 18-20 years if they pass another interview.

What ever makes you feel better chief. I know you don't work at PSA but you act like you know everything relating to seniority and movement at PSA. You don't see me coming over to the compass threads and proclaiming to know it all? Why don't you worry about your own airline (which is compass based on your posts).

So wait, according to gold and daoldman, the flow for a new hire is 16 years?! Well fu(k me running!! I guess math was never your strong suit, if that's the number you prefer to use to highlight envoy's flow through program.

The pilots at envoy currently flowing to American, on average have about 16 years of longevity. What is so hard to understand about that? I said nothing about new hires. How long it takes a new hire to flow is speculation. The average longevity of envoy pilots currently flowing to American(16 years) is factual and indisputable. I'm out.

No one will ever know.... When i was there. (99) The math looked like 4 years.. They said 3... Reality 16.... Will that stand. No. It will drop.. But i would guess not below 6-8 years... There 2 years is pretty aggressive math... Crap happens. Factor in that...

So potential new hires should make decisions on what current conditions for current pilots are. Less than 2 years ago PSA had 450 pilots and no fast upgrade in site. It can change back to that just as fast.

But while we talking fact, current flow for a new hire at PSA is 20 years based on the pilot group size and your flow amount. Current flow for a new hire at envoy, again using the required contractual flow, is 6 years. Be a moron and try to spin it however you want, but these too are FACTS of current flows between the two airlines.

When did anybody ever dispute the fact that the current pilots flowing there have a longevity of 16 years? They didn't.

That being said, what's your point? If you're going to bring up that fact, why not bring up others? Such as;

1. Industry stagnation for over a decade
2. Mass retirements in the coming years
3. 50% of AA new-hire classes going to envoy pilots
4. 70% of new-hires at AA since 2013 have been from envoy

The list goes on. So before you're "out", I ask again...why are you only highlighting the fact that the current flows have been on property for 16 years? Why not bring up the other FACTS?

The flow(SSP) at PSA is only relavant for the top 550 on the list. This flow basically doesn't exist for new hires or anyone below number 550. You Envoy guys keep throwing this speculative 20 year number out there. Just ust start telling everyone the flow does not exist for new hires or pilots below #550. It is what it is.

I'd be curious as to what type of concessions your pilot group is currently entertaining in return for an actual flow with more then 4/month...

If history tells us anything, you guys will give away the farm.