Why so condescending? Is there something wrong with having a simple lifestyle? Do you have a problem with people who seek happiness in things other than material objects, being socially accepted, having a house, having lots of money and meeting the status quo? Maybe you should start another forum for people like yourself. As far as I remember, this forum was for pilots and not for who's meeting up to the stauts quo or following the latest social trend. I came here to seek positive motivation. Do you think just because your a "middle class" that you're better than me or anyone else here and that you have more friends because of that? If you have more friends just because your "middle class" then I feel sorry for you. I think most of us here have friends outside the EAA and for no other reason than they like who we are. Tell ya what! I don't know you but I have read your posts and you SUCK! Didn't your mom tell you not to say anything if you have nothing nice (positive) to say? And please, for all of us here, please define a "normal social life". And lastly, don't assume anything, pal. Not everyone here is going to give up passion for the bottom line. Otherwise, what the hell are we living for?

 

You guys come strait out of flight school braced for a life of poverty. Hold out a cup and perhaps I will drop a quarter in it.

There is much more to life than sitting in the flight deck and most of it takes money to live on. This is supposed to be a profession after all. I think you are selling yourself short. We all have many passions in life. Pick one that has a chance of providing for a family and for your own retirement one day. Aviation is descending into a working hobby. 5 years ago I was doing my recurrent training at the simulator and the instructor told me that UAL pilots never study because they were not given any pay for it. Those guys were professionals to a fault.

SkyHigh

 

Enjoy your next meeting.

SKyHigh

 

Pardon me, but my father has been a pilot for over 30 years and I have never lived in poverty under his roof. Your goals are different, fine. But I have no intentions of having a family, a house or setting retirement as my ultimate goal. This doesn't mean that I am going to be living in poverty or "holding out a cup" begging for spare change. Aviation is not descending into a working hobby, it's at the bottom of its cycle like it has been in the past. It's an up and down industry, just like home building. Anyway, however you want to twist it, aviation is the only thing I can imagine myself doing as a profession and yes, there are still PLENTY of great paying airlines out there. Excuse me if I've overlooked your sarcasm, but the UAL guys I know worked like hell to get where they're at, including my old man. If there's much more to life than the flight deck, then please enlighten me....What are you doing in this forum? You don't like the airlines, you dont like flying as a profession. What gives?

 

You can not expect to have similar returns as the prior generation. Aviation does cycle but since deregulation it has been on a permanent downhill slide. The majors will hire pilots again but at less pay and worse working conditions. The pay might come back a little but will only remain till the next down turn when the cuts will be deep and more ground will be lost.

I am here because some here read these posts and perhaps dream of building a normal life. Aviation is filled with false information fed to newbies to sell flight training. No where else can they get a balanced perspective. I offer a unique perspective in that I have personal experience backed with an unbiased eye.

SkyHigh

 

Sky, hats off as they say. You influenced me to stay with engineering. I always believed pilots were the best and should be the best paid. It's not so, and the market has prevailed.

My dream job is to work for the same company I do engineering for flying Lear 60s making $80k to start plus great benefits.

 

If more people made the same rational decisions then perhaps there would be some hope for all. Flying is best when accompanying other pursuits.

SkyHigh

 

Sky come on................................Rational decisions?, life is not about rational decisions, its about going after what inspires you. I am going to give my life to this thing, good/bad indifferent. If I am broke at 60, or 65 well ******* it i did what I wanted to do, I didnt let people like you discourage me from what I WANTED to do...............don't you get it, this is what we want to do. Nobody is driving us to do it. I mean I am a first year FO for the second time and I still enjoy going to work. I have friends that make well over 100k and they are MISERABLE. At times its hard to think what we, (excluding you) do and how little we get paid, I feel it will change and if not, I as well as my other forum buddies on this website will do everything we can to make some changes. The industry is not going to stay like this forever. There are some things that are more important than a 440k house, hell you know as well as anybody else nothing in the world like 35kt x-winds circling to 29, to have the pax thank you for the great flight and clapping on the landing.................thats some great ****. Whats the point of dying with money in the bank?????????????????? Watching the wing-flex on a 777 on T/O?????????/Priceless. Hell after a 4-day turned 6-day nightmare, as I walked to my car in the F lot at EWR every time an airplane took off, I couldn't help but look and smile, so rant all you want..................most of us on here our in it for the long haul.

 

Sure I can have those expectations! My old man brings home more in a month than I make in a year. And in 2008, they pay is suppose to go up. If not, my pops is still happy making what he makes. He's never made over 200K a year and he's retiring 8 years early (next year). He's been a pilot during the majority of the "de-reg" years and has done very well for himself. He's been with a dozen airlines in the process and has still managed to buy an RC-3 Seabee (www.republicseabee.com his website), two houses (on the lake) and retire early. I'd say that's doing pretty well, finacially. Does he want more? Absolutely not. He's absolutely content with is life: commonly referred to as "being grateful". But I'll give you something skyhigh, there were times where he did feel like throwing in the towel, in fact, he's called me on several occasions just absolutely livid with the industry. But where would he be if he quit? I don't know either, but he's happy with the way things are because it could have been a lot worse. If there's one thing we can agree on, it's that aviation (flight schools in the back of aviation magazines) are filled with false information and deception that you have to pay $62K to get you ratings. My dad's advice: let the damn company you fly for pay for your RJ type rating. And that's the way it should be. He never had to pay for a single type rating in his life (except for his flight engineers license). All my flight training is done old school: all on my own, except for my private which was a gift. And one more thing, please enlighten all of us on the definition of "normal life". However, skyhigh, let us decide for ourselves if this is what we want to do to achieve our normal life, because there is no standard for normal life, everyone has there own definition. I would rethink whether your views are unbiased here because all I see on your posts is building a normal, middle class lifestyle, being a home owner and ditching the idea of being an aviator for the bottom line. That's not balanced.

 

Preach on BROTHA!

Don’t forget to mention that we WILL make somewhere in between 100K & 250K a year in our profession, dependent on who we work for. Even if we stay with our current employer we’ll top out in the 100K’s. All it takes is a little Stick-To-It-Ness and time is on our side. ALSO, who here will be a single income family, not many. My wife makes what I will as a senior RJ CA, add that to what I make and you've got 150K+ and rising. We’ve also played our cards right and have good amount of money invested, majority of our house paid off, almost NO student loan debt and I'm a lowly FO. The best part about two incomes is that if I was to pass then she has a career to pay the bills and will not be forced to settle of entry level pay.

Life's not about money, all you have to do is use what you have wisely and in the end it'll pay off.