Actually this forum is one of my few hobbies. To me this is writing and not flying. I express my views and share my experiences. Everything I write is from what I believe to be true. I understand that is it inflammatory however my aim is to inform and to help others to avoid the pitfalls that plague this career.

I am sorry if my ideas threaten you. It is true that I am not currently working as a pilot however at least a third who post here are either newbies in training, retired or on the sidelines like me. If you can't handle a simple peaceful exchange of ideas then please use the ignore button and return to being a cull.


SkyHigh

 

Sure, someone will make it if for no other reason than to sell more subscriptions to flying magazine, however for everything in life there is a price. Some have shortcuts most have none. In the end we all need to do a cost analysis and benefits comparison to see what our real chances are. I sat next to plenty of pilots who "never gave up" to their own destruction. One of them only had a two bedroom apartment and an old corvette to his name when he retired after a lifetime of dedicated service and hard luck.

This career is unforgiving and success mostly depends upon luck and circumstance. We all could sit there and continue to drop years of our life into the airline slot machine. There are absolutely no guarantees. I was never comfortable with risking my future upon happenstance.

SkyHigh

 

We have all enjoyed this topic many times on this forum. I agree that in other regions of the country wages are much lower than they are here in the west.

My point is that pilots need to take a holistic approach to compensation. A pilot who makes 120K in the last ten years of his career after two decades of huge losses is no better off than a rural police officer who enjoys stable employment and a flush benefits program for their entire career.

Airline employers love to use the carrot and stick. Everyone has their eyes on the prize and neglect to tally up the price it takes to get there.

Of my high school graduating class the richest guy by far pressure washes and maintains cedar roofs in the Seattle area. He never went to college, trade school or anything else and easily clears 500K with a few helpers.

I think that pilots get locked into a career/job mentality and neglect to see the big picture.

SkyHigh

 

LOL, can't say I've ever been called a "cull" before..... good times.

Your ideas do not threaten me, as a lot of what you say is indeed true. The thing is that you are the definition of a "glass half empty" pessimist, and it would be unfortunate for a person to take everything you say as "the way it is." You present the entire industry as a lose lose situation, where that is not the case at all. This industry can be broken down into many different segments and each are in a constant state of change and evolution. I truly believe that we will see dramatic improvement in the years to come. Though it will never return to the "Glory days" of aviation, it will not continue to be the hell that you frequently describe. Call it educated ignorance, but I choose to believe that our career glass is half full and rising.

With my degree it would not be difficult to find a more stable, better paying, home every night job. Would I enjoy it? Hell no. I would stare at my cubical wall and dream about what could have been the view from my cockpit window. I can tell you for certain that I do not look out the window at altitude and dream about would could have been my cubical wall.

I still feel sorry for you, and hope that you fill that void of yours with something more fulfilling than preaching negativity through a keyboard. Good luck, and I hope that your life will one day become "good enough" for you.

Happily living my dream.

-Quag

 

Perhaps you are misinterpreting my perspective.

I miss flying and my dream however am compelled to post because of the peace, joy and success I have found outside of aviation. People take up smoking because it is fun and they get short term benefits from it without considering the long term effects. I use to smoke too but quit 16 years ago. Every so often I pause to think of how great it would be to lite up but for obvious reasons do not.

Aviation is similar. I love flying and get a chill whenever a 757 flies over head but remember well the poverty, humiliation and miserable working conditions I endured as a pilot. I believe that most self respecting individuals when presented with all the facts make reasonable choices. In aviation there are few places one can go to hear the rest of the story. I am glad that you are happy with your choice. I stuck it out for almost 20 years and watched as most of the benefits of being an airline pilot were taken away.

You might consider my views as pessimism I would say that you are in denial. I am quite happy and for the first time in my life have experienced career satisfaction. I feel that my experiences and opinions here have value to others. I have spent my adult life trying to learn the secrets of success in the airlines and believe that I have a few answers and like to share them.

Debate is a spice of life and as always enjoy and look forwards to your counterpoint.


SkyHigh

 

lol, you sound just like your friend. "I believe that most self respecting individuals" hahahahaha, you are a jack ***. Since i am in the industry i guess i dont respect myself, i love to be humiliated, i enjoy poverty, and love to work in the most miserable conditions imagineable.

I remember in high school i would frame houses during the summer months. That is where i made pretty good money. But at what price. the guys i worked with were all in there 30's but looked like the were 50. all worn down and leathered out by working in the sun all day everyday. Some would tear the ligaments in their shoulders and never be able to work at anything again. Miserable conditions is working in the cold rain, carrying sheets of plywood around all day, putting up sheet rock.

I would like to think you enjoy your new career but all you have shown me is that misery loves company. You will not rest till everyone sees it your way and is as unhappy as you are. sad.

Just so you know i am self respecting, i love my job, the future is actaully good (and i think you know it), yes i am a little poorer than before i came here , but i have never been humiliated to be a pilot and considering my previous jobs the conditions aren't that miserable here. i am just finishing a 4 day trip and have the next 6 days off. When i go home i can forget about work. I don't have to think of it at all. If i owned my own business i would have to think of it 24hrs a day. If i worked construction, i would never get 6 days off unless it was a vacation. So next time i sign in the wife and i will be in Ft. Myers enjoying the sun and fun for the next 4 days. (couldn't do that either with previously mentioned jobs.)

 

Just because I say that I "build houses" does not mean that I am on a ladder everyday. I mostly use sub-contractors. Most days I sit at home surf the net a little, check on the job and go to Costco with my wife. I do whatever I want most of the time. Last week I completed a project that has been underway for over a year now and my net is more than what most major airline captains make in a year. It took less than three months of time combined and some construction management. I do have stress at times and it does occupy a lot of my mental focus but I can assure you that the stresses and responsibilities are nothing compared to the stress of being an impoverished regional airline FO in a dying profession.

You are still new to the industry. It can take at least three years for you to fully see all the downfalls. I also framed houses in high school. Perhaps one day your framing experience will come in handy for you too.

All I can say is that guys like you are made for this career. Best of luck and please use the ignore button next time. Enjoy that 24K! Life has some big surprises in store for you.

SkyHigh

PS.

 

hahaa, never said you were on a ladder all day, not sure why that came to your mind. Well i almost have 2 years down and all i have seen is growth and potential. Not sure why you think this is a dying industry when the airlines cant hire enough. At some point like has been pointed out here, supply and demand will kick in and the pilots will get what they want. After 9/11 companies used that fear to scare the pilots down to "save" the industry. and who knows, maybe there was a real chance that some of the airlines were going to disappear. It has happened before. But that time has passed and all the pilot groups know it. Airlines are making money and the people working for them know it. its just a matter of time before it will be the companies turn to make concessions. and dont be so hateful, why would i want to ignore you?? i enjoy reading the bitter rantings of an old man... makes me realize how good i have it.

 

I read your postings often and I'm glad to say that I’ve found very few that I disagree with. I do believe you and I are on the same page, especially when it comes to the "Old Bitter Ramblings" of SkyHigh. My father was an airline pilot for over 32 years. We have many current and retired airline pilot friends who were apart of the chaious caused by Deregulation, Eastern, Braniff, Pan Am and 9/11. After all that they have been through you'd think that they would sound like SkyHigh, but they don't. They've stated many times that the industry isn't what it used to be but it's still far better than 95% of the professions out there, "for most."

There are risks associated with every job, some pay off more than others and some pay off in a different way. Commercial aviation can do both if you play your cards right, your professional in appearance and demeanor, well spoken, hard working and your personality is one the builds bridges to allow you to move up to a SWA, FedEx or UPS.

It's all a gamble, but it's the right gamble for my life. I plan on choosing my future steps wisely and I will utilize the advice of my family & friends who are currently in and retired from the airline industry to do so.

A wise man once said, "I'd rather fail at something I love than succeed at something I hate.”

 

That's great. Whatever field you are in I am sure has the same kind of terrible stories that some pilots have. Just because you are happy now, doesn't mean the bottom won't drop out in the future. It's the same thing for me - things are good now but who knows? In any field, you don't really know if you made the right decision until you retire. Can we agree on that?