Hats off to Skyhigh
03-23-2007 | 05:57 AM
#121
Banned
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 6,929
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From: A-320
My point is that it costs a lot of money to reach middle class these days. One needs to take a holistic approach to studying pilot compensation. Employer paid retirements are gone. Wages are down while work rules are worse. If someone really is bent upon throwing their lives away then my hat is off to them. However if you harbor dreams of a wife, home, kids and white picket fence then perhaps you had better look elsewhere than an aviation career.
We can not look to the prior generation as an example of the future. Those days are gone forever. One needs to peer ahead 30 years with expectations of furloughs, moves, layoffs and further pay cuts. Pilots love to pull the wool over their own eyes and intentionally fail to recognise the truths that are blatant. As previously mentioned the median home price in Seattle is 440K. Regular people with common jobs are able to pay those prices. 52K and the left seat at a regional will not cut it.
SkyHigh
We can not look to the prior generation as an example of the future. Those days are gone forever. One needs to peer ahead 30 years with expectations of furloughs, moves, layoffs and further pay cuts. Pilots love to pull the wool over their own eyes and intentionally fail to recognise the truths that are blatant. As previously mentioned the median home price in Seattle is 440K. Regular people with common jobs are able to pay those prices. 52K and the left seat at a regional will not cut it.
SkyHigh
Who says the Industry isn't going to turn around, its cyclical isn't it?
You think when contract negotiations come around all these airlines that are now making money, you don't think the pilots are going to demand some changes?
PS 52k in the left seat of a regional, I fly with CA's that make more than that, come on..................
03-23-2007 | 06:12 AM
#122
Self Employed.
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 7,120
Likes: 0
From: Corporate Pilot
Regional
Who says the Industry isn't going to turn around, its cyclical isn't it?
You think when contract negotiations come around all these airlines that are now making money, you don't think the pilots are going to demand some changes?
PS 52k in the left seat of a regional, I fly with CA's that make more than that, come on..................
You think when contract negotiations come around all these airlines that are now making money, you don't think the pilots are going to demand some changes?
PS 52k in the left seat of a regional, I fly with CA's that make more than that, come on..................
Aviation is cyclical and one day demand will raise but expectations have been permanently changed. Every airline is forced to sink to the lowest common denominator or die. Just the other day UAL announced that they need to cut another 400 Million per year in operating costs.
Airlines will throw a bone to pilot groups but it will never go back to 2000 pay and benefits. The declines will continue until everyone operates like Allegiant. They have no choice.
SkyHigh
03-23-2007 | 07:00 AM
#123
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 762
Likes: 0
I am sure that many regional pilots earn more than 52K my point is that it is a pathetic return after so much sacrifice.
Aviation is cyclical and one day demand will raise but expectations have been permanently changed. Every airline is forced to sink to the lowest common denominator or die. Just the other day UAL announced that they need to cut another 400 Million per year in operating costs.
Airlines will throw a bone to pilot groups but it will never go back to 2000 pay and benefits. The declines will continue until everyone operates like Allegiant. They have no choice.
SkyHigh
Aviation is cyclical and one day demand will raise but expectations have been permanently changed. Every airline is forced to sink to the lowest common denominator or die. Just the other day UAL announced that they need to cut another 400 Million per year in operating costs.
Airlines will throw a bone to pilot groups but it will never go back to 2000 pay and benefits. The declines will continue until everyone operates like Allegiant. They have no choice.
SkyHigh
03-23-2007 | 07:14 AM
#124
New boss = Old boss
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,763
Likes: 1
From: Ca B737
However, I think I've made my point. Regardless of the circumstances, a crash is not going to help you get an interview. It is an obstacle to overcome. Even if you were a superstar hero, the interview will be all about that incident. You better have your story "packaged and ready" cause you're gunna talk about it. An accident is the kind of thing that will relegate you to the second tier for your whole career. (yes I know there are exceptions)
03-23-2007 | 07:27 AM
#126
New boss = Old boss
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,763
Likes: 1
From: Ca B737
Since I've never made 150k a year in my life and live in the 5th largest city in the US and support a family of 6 (7 including the grand-daughter who's currently living with us), I think that, ONCE AGAIN, Skyhigh has fudged the numbers. I dont' need to publish the whole budget but...
I live in a 3900 sq ft house.
Put one son through flying school
Pay for the other son's VERY expensive Travel Sport Team
We have three cars in the garage, two of them bought new (Lexus and Chrysler)
My wife doesn't work
Not bragging, just trying to establish the fact that we're not scraping by. Not rich, but better off than a lot of people I know.
I wonder how I do it on the "pittance" that I make? The bottom line is you can get by on WAY less than 150k.
Skyhigh...please get your math right. I've called you on this before and you still make these numbers up.
I live in a 3900 sq ft house.
Put one son through flying school
Pay for the other son's VERY expensive Travel Sport Team
We have three cars in the garage, two of them bought new (Lexus and Chrysler)
My wife doesn't work
Not bragging, just trying to establish the fact that we're not scraping by. Not rich, but better off than a lot of people I know.
I wonder how I do it on the "pittance" that I make? The bottom line is you can get by on WAY less than 150k.
Skyhigh...please get your math right. I've called you on this before and you still make these numbers up.
Also, no one is saying you can't get by on less than 150k. I'm saying, IMO, less than 200k Blows. I've tried to explain why and I've talked about retirement and career uncertainty to highlight two important reasons why. I've also tried to frame this argument as coming from the mouth of an older guy with "old school" career expectations. Captains for majors were making 150k/yr in 1985 when I started down this road. They still make 150k yet prices have doubled! Todays young pilots are starting low and have nothing but raises to look forward to.
03-23-2007 | 09:11 AM
#127
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 4,357
Likes: 0
From: UPS 757/767 Capt ONT
"Hey what did SURFNFLY say PM please"
He repeatedly used inappropriate language along with personal insults.
As a mod, I'm constantly going into threads deleting stuff like that. It blows my mind that people can't get their point across without going there.
If you don't like what Skyhigh has to say, or don't agree with him to the point of frustration, I'd suggest you just ignore him (use the ignore feature). Even though I totally disagree with a lot of Skyhigh's stuff, I've noticed he's smart enough to not engage in much petty name calling. As such, he's not the one that's looks stupid when some of you come unglued on him.
He repeatedly used inappropriate language along with personal insults.
As a mod, I'm constantly going into threads deleting stuff like that. It blows my mind that people can't get their point across without going there.
If you don't like what Skyhigh has to say, or don't agree with him to the point of frustration, I'd suggest you just ignore him (use the ignore feature). Even though I totally disagree with a lot of Skyhigh's stuff, I've noticed he's smart enough to not engage in much petty name calling. As such, he's not the one that's looks stupid when some of you come unglued on him.
03-23-2007 | 09:13 AM
#128
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 762
Likes: 0
"Hey what did SURFNFLY say PM please"
He repeatedly used inappropriate language along with personal insults.
As a mod, I'm constantly going into threads deleting stuff like that. It blows my mind that people can't get their point across without going there.
If you don't like what Skyhigh has to say, or don't agree with him to the point of frustration, I'd suggest you just ignore him (use the ignore feature). Even though I totally disagree with a lot of Skyhigh's stuff, I've noticed he's smart enough to not engage in much petty name calling. As such, he's not the one that's looks stupid when some of you come unglued on him.
He repeatedly used inappropriate language along with personal insults.
As a mod, I'm constantly going into threads deleting stuff like that. It blows my mind that people can't get their point across without going there.
If you don't like what Skyhigh has to say, or don't agree with him to the point of frustration, I'd suggest you just ignore him (use the ignore feature). Even though I totally disagree with a lot of Skyhigh's stuff, I've noticed he's smart enough to not engage in much petty name calling. As such, he's not the one that's looks stupid when some of you come unglued on him.
03-23-2007 | 09:29 AM
#129
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 897
Likes: 0
From: RC-3 Seabee. Skipper of the A21 cutter.
03-23-2007 | 09:30 AM
#130
APC's Hired Help
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,231
Likes: 0
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