Hats off to Skyhigh
03-23-2007 | 04:09 PM
#141
Self Employed.
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 7,120
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From: Corporate Pilot
Middle class
[QUOTE=org1;138163]
Pilot jobs are located in the big city. I happen to live in the west and things are more expensive than in Kansas City. A middle class life style is a 2000 SF home (national average is 2500 sq ft) two point five kids, two cars and a stay at home spouse.
SkyHigh
1 Seat,
half a million dollar mortgages, [QUOTE
In some areas, maybe that's normal. In most it's definitely not. You can, in most places in the US, live a middle class life on $115,000. If you consider middle class entitles you to a couple of 745 BMWs every year, a 5000 sf new home, all the latest gadgets, a couple of mistress's, and sending two kids to Harvard med school, then I guess you can't. It's all in what you call "middle class."
one seat, I'm with you. There needs to be some serious re orientation here.
half a million dollar mortgages, [QUOTE
In some areas, maybe that's normal. In most it's definitely not. You can, in most places in the US, live a middle class life on $115,000. If you consider middle class entitles you to a couple of 745 BMWs every year, a 5000 sf new home, all the latest gadgets, a couple of mistress's, and sending two kids to Harvard med school, then I guess you can't. It's all in what you call "middle class."
one seat, I'm with you. There needs to be some serious re orientation here.
Pilot jobs are located in the big city. I happen to live in the west and things are more expensive than in Kansas City. A middle class life style is a 2000 SF home (national average is 2500 sq ft) two point five kids, two cars and a stay at home spouse.
SkyHigh
03-23-2007 | 04:11 PM
#142
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2005
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Keep in mind that the number you mentioned is the "starting" pay. In my 16 years as a professional pilot I made 42K at the very end. I was at a graduation party last spring and a few college grads had jobs starting out at 55K. One beat 60K.
Pilots spend more on training and it takes at least 3 to five years to reach 40K.
SkyHigh
Pilots spend more on training and it takes at least 3 to five years to reach 40K.
SkyHigh
-LAFF
03-23-2007 | 04:43 PM
#143
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,228
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From: FO - 757/767
03-23-2007 | 05:54 PM
#144
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 194
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From: B727
[QUOTE=SkyHigh;
Pilot jobs are located in the big city. I happen to live in the west and things are more expensive than in Kansas City. A middle class life style is a 2000 SF home (national average is 2500 sq ft) two point five kids, two cars and a stay at home spouse.
SkyHigh[/QUOTE]
Agreed. However, just because the expenses are higher in SFO or other west coast cities does not mean that's the norm. It's the upper end of the range. Try PHX, DEN, DFW, ATL, (all of which are hubs for airlines) and countless other "big cities". If you want to live there, it's your choice. It doesn't alter the fact that for the great majority of people, middle class lifestyle doesn't require $200K. If it did, there would be no middle class, since there would be so few that qualify.
All you have to do is look at the rest of the country (inside the coastlines).
Pilot jobs are located in the big city. I happen to live in the west and things are more expensive than in Kansas City. A middle class life style is a 2000 SF home (national average is 2500 sq ft) two point five kids, two cars and a stay at home spouse.
SkyHigh[/QUOTE]
Agreed. However, just because the expenses are higher in SFO or other west coast cities does not mean that's the norm. It's the upper end of the range. Try PHX, DEN, DFW, ATL, (all of which are hubs for airlines) and countless other "big cities". If you want to live there, it's your choice. It doesn't alter the fact that for the great majority of people, middle class lifestyle doesn't require $200K. If it did, there would be no middle class, since there would be so few that qualify.
All you have to do is look at the rest of the country (inside the coastlines).
03-23-2007 | 06:14 PM
#145
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 897
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From: RC-3 Seabee. Skipper of the A21 cutter.
[quote=SkyHigh;138270]
Stay at home spouse??? Eh, is this 1950 or 2007? Pilot jobs are located in the big city, you're right! Ding ding ding!! And that's why a lot of pilots commute so they dont get raped by big city taxes and outrageous expenses. Not to mention the potential for respiratory cancer from smog. When my wife finishes her MFA, we're headed back to good ol' South Carolina. Yep, to live in poverty from my 10K a year RJ job and she'll work as a flight attendant at Mesa for 5K a year. Yep, you were right all along, skyhigh. I am setup for a life of poverty living in a van down by the river. Never gonna see the "middle class" lifestyle. You know, I am really starting to get a low self esteem because I live on the west coast and I dont have 2500 sq.ft home, 2.5 kids, two cars and a stay at home spouse. I'm starting to feel peer pressure here. I think I should get 10 credit cards and live up to this "middle class" measuring stick". Hell, I might need a prescription for zoloft or something because I'm starting to feel a little depressed here. LOL!
Stay at home spouse??? Eh, is this 1950 or 2007? Pilot jobs are located in the big city, you're right! Ding ding ding!! And that's why a lot of pilots commute so they dont get raped by big city taxes and outrageous expenses. Not to mention the potential for respiratory cancer from smog. When my wife finishes her MFA, we're headed back to good ol' South Carolina. Yep, to live in poverty from my 10K a year RJ job and she'll work as a flight attendant at Mesa for 5K a year. Yep, you were right all along, skyhigh. I am setup for a life of poverty living in a van down by the river. Never gonna see the "middle class" lifestyle. You know, I am really starting to get a low self esteem because I live on the west coast and I dont have 2500 sq.ft home, 2.5 kids, two cars and a stay at home spouse. I'm starting to feel peer pressure here. I think I should get 10 credit cards and live up to this "middle class" measuring stick". Hell, I might need a prescription for zoloft or something because I'm starting to feel a little depressed here. LOL!
03-23-2007 | 06:38 PM
#146
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,385
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From: 737 Right
[QUOTE=SkyHigh;138270]
The rapid price increase of houseing in the US is not a problem with Aviation. It's a problem with all careers because housing costs have outstripped all salary growth in the US. Housing prices have gotten so upside down that it's made the rental market very attractive, especially for higher end houses. I know more than one guy who could afford to own who simply refuse to because they can have the same house with less hassle at 30% less a month.
The fact remains that most people in the US make a LOT less than the numbers you're talking about. Sure, you have some anecdote about someone who's making a bundle doing whatever, but that doesnt' bear out in the overall picture.
I also know that SWA is hiring some very young civilian pilots who are right at the minimums. Just this afternoon I was talking to a friend of mine who was hired in December. His sim partner in training was a 26 year old from the regionals, barely had the mins.
you want to swap anecdotes; in the circles I run in there's more success stories than failures.
The fact remains that most people in the US make a LOT less than the numbers you're talking about. Sure, you have some anecdote about someone who's making a bundle doing whatever, but that doesnt' bear out in the overall picture.
I also know that SWA is hiring some very young civilian pilots who are right at the minimums. Just this afternoon I was talking to a friend of mine who was hired in December. His sim partner in training was a 26 year old from the regionals, barely had the mins.
you want to swap anecdotes; in the circles I run in there's more success stories than failures.
03-23-2007 | 07:31 PM
#147
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 194
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From: B727
[QUOTE=1Seat 1Engine;138328]
The rapid price increase of houseing in the US is not a problem with Aviation. It's a problem with all careers because housing costs have outstripped all salary growth in the US. Housing prices have gotten so upside down that it's made the rental market very attractive, especially for higher end houses. I know more than one guy who could afford to own who simply refuse to because they can have the same house with less hassle at 30% less a month.
The fact remains that most people in the US make a LOT less than the numbers you're talking about. Sure, you have some anecdote about someone who's making a bundle doing whatever, but that doesnt' bear out in the overall picture.
I also know that SWA is hiring some very young civilian pilots who are right at the minimums. Just this afternoon I was talking to a friend of mine who was hired in December. His sim partner in training was a 26 year old from the regionals, barely had the mins.
you want to swap anecdotes; in the circles I run in there's more success stories than failures.
Guys, the last two posts show a quote supposedly by org1. I don't know what happened, but I made neither of them. I suspect some clipping inadvertantly made them look like they came from me.
org1
The rapid price increase of houseing in the US is not a problem with Aviation. It's a problem with all careers because housing costs have outstripped all salary growth in the US. Housing prices have gotten so upside down that it's made the rental market very attractive, especially for higher end houses. I know more than one guy who could afford to own who simply refuse to because they can have the same house with less hassle at 30% less a month.
The fact remains that most people in the US make a LOT less than the numbers you're talking about. Sure, you have some anecdote about someone who's making a bundle doing whatever, but that doesnt' bear out in the overall picture.
I also know that SWA is hiring some very young civilian pilots who are right at the minimums. Just this afternoon I was talking to a friend of mine who was hired in December. His sim partner in training was a 26 year old from the regionals, barely had the mins.
you want to swap anecdotes; in the circles I run in there's more success stories than failures.
org1
03-23-2007 | 08:05 PM
#148
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 897
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From: RC-3 Seabee. Skipper of the A21 cutter.
[quote=org1;138364]No, I know they're not from you org1. I think the quote mechanism has failed on the forum. LOL!
03-23-2007 | 08:25 PM
#149
Self Employed.
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 7,120
Likes: 0
From: Corporate Pilot
Runs true
[QUOTE=1Seat 1Engine;138328]
The rapid price increase of houseing in the US is not a problem with Aviation. It's a problem with all careers because housing costs have outstripped all salary growth in the US. Housing prices have gotten so upside down that it's made the rental market very attractive, especially for higher end houses. I know more than one guy who could afford to own who simply refuse to because they can have the same house with less hassle at 30% less a month.
The fact remains that most people in the US make a LOT less than the numbers you're talking about. Sure, you have some anecdote about someone who's making a bundle doing whatever, but that doesnt' bear out in the overall picture.
I also know that SWA is hiring some very young civilian pilots who are right at the minimums. Just this afternoon I was talking to a friend of mine who was hired in December. His sim partner in training was a 26 year old from the regionals, barely had the mins.
you want to swap anecdotes; in the circles I run in there's more success stories than failures.
Of course, You work for a major airline. To you the dream is easy. Everyone you meet strolls in the front door. It is not a common experience. An entire generation of hard working and patient pilots has been passed up with every 26 year old who gets hired at SWA.
SkyHigh
The rapid price increase of houseing in the US is not a problem with Aviation. It's a problem with all careers because housing costs have outstripped all salary growth in the US. Housing prices have gotten so upside down that it's made the rental market very attractive, especially for higher end houses. I know more than one guy who could afford to own who simply refuse to because they can have the same house with less hassle at 30% less a month.
The fact remains that most people in the US make a LOT less than the numbers you're talking about. Sure, you have some anecdote about someone who's making a bundle doing whatever, but that doesnt' bear out in the overall picture.
I also know that SWA is hiring some very young civilian pilots who are right at the minimums. Just this afternoon I was talking to a friend of mine who was hired in December. His sim partner in training was a 26 year old from the regionals, barely had the mins.
you want to swap anecdotes; in the circles I run in there's more success stories than failures.
SkyHigh
03-24-2007 | 07:25 AM
#150
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,385
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From: 737 Right
So according to you, If you've made it, it's easy, and if you haven't it's almost impossible?
And again, you're making up numbers when you say,"An entire generation of hard working and patient pilots has been passed up with every 26 year old who gets hired at SWA." Your math never adds up and your assumptions show your bias.
Just to be clear, I don't yet work for a any airline. My airline experience comes from working predominantly with ANG/Reservists and family members who fly.
And again, you're making up numbers when you say,"An entire generation of hard working and patient pilots has been passed up with every 26 year old who gets hired at SWA." Your math never adds up and your assumptions show your bias.
Just to be clear, I don't yet work for a any airline. My airline experience comes from working predominantly with ANG/Reservists and family members who fly.
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