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03-31-2007, 03:14 PM
#41
Banned
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Posts: 72
Originally Posted by XJPILOT1
Many of you in this forum actually believe it's over for this industry. Times change. Some times are good some times are bad. I believe we are about to see an upswing! So all of you who think people like me are doomed, get another job that makes YOU happy. Then when the time comes when new contract raise the scale, I'll be here plugging along. You, on the other hand, wiil be complaining on THAT industrys forum on how you're getting scr*ewed.
03-31-2007, 11:15 PM
#42
Banned
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Corsair pilot wannabe
Posts: 52
Originally Posted by starvin marvin
Well, he's obviously at Mesaba... I'm not sure how you could miss that one since you're so in tune with everything. You don't even know what seat/experience he holds, so I'm not sure how you have any idea what the pay is. I encourage you to compare XJ (Mesaba, since you apparently didn't know) rates to other SAAB rates, and report back to us about how much below (or just barely above) the poverty level it is.
03-31-2007, 11:21 PM
#43
Banned
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Corsair pilot wannabe
Posts: 52
Originally Posted by XJPILOT1
Wrong...
Wrong...
MESABA has a fleet of SAAB's and it is a GOOD place to work. I AM far from the poverty line.
If your intent was to upset me...you didn't, however I WILL PICKET and I would take a job flying larger planes.
Go cry on your wife/grilfriends shoulder and get over yourself. Times have changed and will most likely change again.
Wrong...
MESABA has a fleet of SAAB's and it is a GOOD place to work. I AM far from the poverty line.
If your intent was to upset me...you didn't, however I WILL PICKET and I would take a job flying larger planes.
Go cry on your wife/grilfriends shoulder and get over yourself. Times have changed and will most likely change again.
I have two very close friends at Mesaba, and they knock it (and their pay) constantly. Your obviously pretty new. Way to keep the head up though!
03-31-2007, 11:30 PM
#44
Banned
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Corsair pilot wannabe
Posts: 52
Originally Posted by RJ85FO
So I took the time to research the facts for the benefit of everyone. ALPA is responsible for the "poverty line" comparisons. It simply is not true.
When you look at Federal Register Vol. 72 No.15 dated January 24, 2007 (pages 3147-3148) you will find that the 2007 Federal poverty level for a household of 1 is: $10,210 in the lower 48. For a family of 2 it is: $13,690.
The average line in MEM on the Saab at Mesaba credits 89.04 hours with 270.50 hours away from base. At starting F/O pay of $22.81, that equates to:
$2031.00/month flight pay
$419.28/month per-diem
Per Diem is reimbursement for expenses, so when we are talking about poverty, it must be included since you are using it to buy food, dry cleaning, movies, etc.
So we have $2450.28/month or $29,403.36 per year
Even using fuzzy math, that is 288% of the poverty line for 1 or 215% of the poverty line for two.
Okay, even worst case (reserve in base and don't fly) 75 hour guarantee. no per-diem, puts you at $20,529 per year. That is still well above "poverty."
I am not arguing that it is enough, or fair, or a "decent living" but it is certainly not poverty wages.
Incidentally, federal minimum wage is $10,712 per year.
When you look at Federal Register Vol. 72 No.15 dated January 24, 2007 (pages 3147-3148) you will find that the 2007 Federal poverty level for a household of 1 is: $10,210 in the lower 48. For a family of 2 it is: $13,690.
The average line in MEM on the Saab at Mesaba credits 89.04 hours with 270.50 hours away from base. At starting F/O pay of $22.81, that equates to:
$2031.00/month flight pay
$419.28/month per-diem
Per Diem is reimbursement for expenses, so when we are talking about poverty, it must be included since you are using it to buy food, dry cleaning, movies, etc.
So we have $2450.28/month or $29,403.36 per year
Even using fuzzy math, that is 288% of the poverty line for 1 or 215% of the poverty line for two.
Okay, even worst case (reserve in base and don't fly) 75 hour guarantee. no per-diem, puts you at $20,529 per year. That is still well above "poverty."
I am not arguing that it is enough, or fair, or a "decent living" but it is certainly not poverty wages.
Incidentally, federal minimum wage is $10,712 per year.
03-31-2007, 11:33 PM
#45
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Posts: 614
Originally Posted by machaf
So... How is Mesaba a good place to work for? Please enlighten me.
04-01-2007, 05:49 AM
#46
On Reserve
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: CL-65, CE550
Posts: 11
Originally Posted by RJ85FO
So I took the time to research the facts for the benefit of everyone. ALPA is responsible for the "poverty line" comparisons. It simply is not true.
When you look at Federal Register Vol. 72 No.15 dated January 24, 2007 (pages 3147-3148) you will find that the 2007 Federal poverty level for a household of 1 is: $10,210 in the lower 48. For a family of 2 it is: $13,690.
The average line in MEM on the Saab at Mesaba credits 89.04 hours with 270.50 hours away from base. At starting F/O pay of $22.81, that equates to:
$2031.00/month flight pay
$419.28/month per-diem
Per Diem is reimbursement for expenses, so when we are talking about poverty, it must be included since you are using it to buy food, dry cleaning, movies, etc.
So we have $2450.28/month or $29,403.36 per year
Even using fuzzy math, that is 288% of the poverty line for 1 or 215% of the poverty line for two.
Okay, even worst case (reserve in base and don't fly) 75 hour guarantee. no per-diem, puts you at $20,529 per year. That is still well above "poverty."
I am not arguing that it is enough, or fair, or a "decent living" but it is certainly not poverty wages.
Incidentally, federal minimum wage is $10,712 per year.
When you look at Federal Register Vol. 72 No.15 dated January 24, 2007 (pages 3147-3148) you will find that the 2007 Federal poverty level for a household of 1 is: $10,210 in the lower 48. For a family of 2 it is: $13,690.
The average line in MEM on the Saab at Mesaba credits 89.04 hours with 270.50 hours away from base. At starting F/O pay of $22.81, that equates to:
$2031.00/month flight pay
$419.28/month per-diem
Per Diem is reimbursement for expenses, so when we are talking about poverty, it must be included since you are using it to buy food, dry cleaning, movies, etc.
So we have $2450.28/month or $29,403.36 per year
Even using fuzzy math, that is 288% of the poverty line for 1 or 215% of the poverty line for two.
Okay, even worst case (reserve in base and don't fly) 75 hour guarantee. no per-diem, puts you at $20,529 per year. That is still well above "poverty."
I am not arguing that it is enough, or fair, or a "decent living" but it is certainly not poverty wages.
Incidentally, federal minimum wage is $10,712 per year.
OK for anybody that thinks they can provide for their family for these wages let me know because, I would like to know what Im doing wrong. At these wages I could barely rent an apartment and provide enough money to pay the bills each month and take care of my family. Maybe 20-30,000 might be enough for a single person but not someone with a family. Especially if you live in a hub city. I would consider having to live paycheck to paycheck no better then poverty.
04-01-2007, 06:40 AM
#47
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Posts: 318
Let's compare it to a new pilot in the military
Originally Posted by Boardr1521
OK for anybody that thinks they can provide for their family for these wages let me know because, I would like to know what Im doing wrong. At these wages I could barely rent an apartment and provide enough money to pay the bills each month and take care of my family. Maybe 20-30,000 might be enough for a single person but not someone with a family. Especially if you live in a hub city. I would consider having to live paycheck to paycheck no better then poverty.
Base Pay - $2469/mo
Flight Pay - $156/mo
BAS - approx $1000/mo (depends on what part of the country you live in)
there are also additional COLA's added for living overseas. With the added tax bennies, your average 2LT pilot type is making between $3600 and $4000 a month or over 40K per year.
When you start comparing what a more senior officer/pilot is making, and compare that to somone of like experience at a legacy is making now it's the same. Let's look at a Lt Col with 18 years experience. Looks like this:
Base Pay - $6900/mo
Flight Pay - $840/mo
Housing - $1300-$2000 (depends where you live)
Let's just call it $9000 grand a month or 108K a year, and when you take all the tax bennie into account jack it another 15-20K. That's not too shabby.
I'm not trying to poke anyone in the eye here, just make a statement. In all my years in the military did I ever dream I'd make more than my civilian counterpart. I never did it for the money, I loved the job. That may be the case for a lot of you too. But the bottom line is, you gotta put bread on the table and save for a rainy day. A guy in the right seat of an RJ/SAAB/Whatever deserves and should expect more than 20K a year. You just can't pull a guy off the street and ask him to do what we do overnight, but it looks like some of the clowns running these companies would do it if they could.
I'm glad some of you are happy with your work environment at Mesaba or where ever else you work, but you deserve more than your getting. Like I said, I'm not trying to poke you in the eye---but look at what a 2Lt is making right off the street in UPT, and when you compare what a Lt Col is making to a legacy Capt on a DC-9 or Airbus it's kinda sick.
Jolly
Last edited by JollyF15; 04-01-2007 at 07:10 AM.
04-01-2007, 07:24 AM
#48
The NeverEnding Story
Joined APC: Sep 2005
Posts: 7,512
Originally Posted by JollyF15
I know it's apples and oranges, but here's what a 2Lt in the Military makes under the newest pay charts (this includes a 2.2% raise this year):
Base Pay - $2469/mo
Flight Pay - $156/mo
BAS - approx $1000/mo (depends on what part of the country you live in)
there are also additional COLA's added for living overseas. With the added tax bennies, your average 2LT pilot type is making between $3600 and $4000 a month or over 40K per year.
When you start comparing what a more senior officer/pilot is making, and compare that to somone of like experience at a legacy is making now it's the same. Let's look at a Lt Col with 18 years experience. Looks like this:
Base Pay - $6900/mo
Flight Pay - $840/mo
Housing - $1300-$2000 (depends where you live)
Let's just call it $9000 grand a month or 108K a year, and when you take all the tax bennie into account jack it another 15-20K. That's not too shabby.
I'm not trying to poke anyone in the eye here, just make a statement. In all my years in the military did I ever dream I'd make more than my civilian counterpart. I never did it for the money, I loved the job. That may be the case for a lot of you too. But the bottom line is, you gotta put bread on the table and save for a rainy day. A guy in the right seat of an RJ/SAAB/Whatever deserves and should expect more than 20K a year. You just can't pull a guy off the street and ask him to do what we do overnight, but it looks like some of the clowns running these companies would do it if they could.
I'm glad some of you are happy with your work environment at Mesaba or where ever else you work, but you deserve more than your getting. Like I said, I'm not trying to poke you in the eye---but look at what a 2Lt is making right off the street in UPT, and when you compare what a Lt Col is making to a legacy Capt on a DC-9 or Airbus it's kinda sick.
Jolly
Base Pay - $2469/mo
Flight Pay - $156/mo
BAS - approx $1000/mo (depends on what part of the country you live in)
there are also additional COLA's added for living overseas. With the added tax bennies, your average 2LT pilot type is making between $3600 and $4000 a month or over 40K per year.
When you start comparing what a more senior officer/pilot is making, and compare that to somone of like experience at a legacy is making now it's the same. Let's look at a Lt Col with 18 years experience. Looks like this:
Base Pay - $6900/mo
Flight Pay - $840/mo
Housing - $1300-$2000 (depends where you live)
Let's just call it $9000 grand a month or 108K a year, and when you take all the tax bennie into account jack it another 15-20K. That's not too shabby.
I'm not trying to poke anyone in the eye here, just make a statement. In all my years in the military did I ever dream I'd make more than my civilian counterpart. I never did it for the money, I loved the job. That may be the case for a lot of you too. But the bottom line is, you gotta put bread on the table and save for a rainy day. A guy in the right seat of an RJ/SAAB/Whatever deserves and should expect more than 20K a year. You just can't pull a guy off the street and ask him to do what we do overnight, but it looks like some of the clowns running these companies would do it if they could.
I'm glad some of you are happy with your work environment at Mesaba or where ever else you work, but you deserve more than your getting. Like I said, I'm not trying to poke you in the eye---but look at what a 2Lt is making right off the street in UPT, and when you compare what a Lt Col is making to a legacy Capt on a DC-9 or Airbus it's kinda sick.
Jolly
You're right, we do deserve more than we are getting...
04-01-2007, 07:42 AM
#49
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Posts: 318
Did not mean it to be a slam
Originally Posted by BoilerUP
I had a pilot slot in the ANG to fly C-130s. Had a training line built with dates for AMS and UPT. Two months before I was scheduled to report to TYS I was Disqualified/Waiver Not Recommended at Brooks/MFS due to ocular hypertension. Because of this I obviously lost my UPT slot, and was medically discharged out of the ANG. I tried your path and due to no fault of my own, it didn't work out. Thankfully, I had a day job in the right seat of a CRJ, with only minor hassles with the FAA regarding my 1st Class Medical.
You're right, we do deserve more than we are getting...
You're right, we do deserve more than we are getting...
Jolly
04-01-2007, 07:47 AM
#50
The NeverEnding Story
Joined APC: Sep 2005
Posts: 7,512
No worries friend; I never thought you were getting preachy.
It is tragic that an O-3 that goes to the sandbox can make more than most narrowbody airline captains. I suppose that's why ANG slots are so difficult to come by; if I was AD there's no way I'd leave before I put in 20 unless I could keep wearing the uniform part-time toward retirement.
It is tragic that an O-3 that goes to the sandbox can make more than most narrowbody airline captains. I suppose that's why ANG slots are so difficult to come by; if I was AD there's no way I'd leave before I put in 20 unless I could keep wearing the uniform part-time toward retirement.
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