Hiring Mins 40 years ago!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
03-31-2007, 08:12 AM
#41
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: Former EMB 120 Jr. Water Boy, CRJ newbee
Posts: 373
Originally Posted by Ftrooppilot
Still baiting SKYHIGH. That's allright. I love fishing expeditions.
Must respectfully disagree. Flight instruction is often staying awake making sure the student doesn' kill you. It certainly is more then basic maneuvers and landings. We do have CFIIs, MEIs, Sim instructors, etc.
"We all had flight instructors; no one learned by osmosis." Be thankful for their efforts. There value to aviation will become better know when there is a severe shortage.
Many of us learned more from teaching then we did as students. I'm talking about the classroom and the airplane.
Have absolutely no idea what luck and contacts have to do with flight instruction.
You make contacts sound like a dirty word. It's called networking in the modern day world. What's wrong with it ? It's a way of getting your resume in the front door where abilities and qualifications are checked. These are the people who don't sit around and wait for the job to come to them. I'm sure many construction workers network through friends to find work in your industry.
Must respectfully disagree. Flight instruction is often staying awake making sure the student doesn' kill you. It certainly is more then basic maneuvers and landings. We do have CFIIs, MEIs, Sim instructors, etc.
"We all had flight instructors; no one learned by osmosis." Be thankful for their efforts. There value to aviation will become better know when there is a severe shortage.
Many of us learned more from teaching then we did as students. I'm talking about the classroom and the airplane.
Have absolutely no idea what luck and contacts have to do with flight instruction.
You make contacts sound like a dirty word. It's called networking in the modern day world. What's wrong with it ? It's a way of getting your resume in the front door where abilities and qualifications are checked. These are the people who don't sit around and wait for the job to come to them. I'm sure many construction workers network through friends to find work in your industry.
03-31-2007, 09:39 AM
#43
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Position: Body at sea level; heart at 70,000+
Posts: 1,349
Originally Posted by SkyHigh
Those who can do those who can't flight instruct.
Sure we all need instructors however to what end does teaching turns around point do for a future CRJ pilot? Perhaps CFI's should get paid a similar wage to a regional captain and it should be considered a totally separate career path since really they are two separate professions with little in common.
SkyHigh
Sure we all need instructors however to what end does teaching turns around point do for a future CRJ pilot? Perhaps CFI's should get paid a similar wage to a regional captain and it should be considered a totally separate career path since really they are two separate professions with little in common.
SkyHigh
What leads to a future CRJ pilot - Military pilot, crop duster, CFI, aero club member ? There are many paths to the same goal.
Market demands rule. I know a retired legacy pilot who (in the 60s) went from ticket counter sales agent (no flight time) to FE in six months. He spend more then twenty years as a FE because he had "NO FLYING EXPERIENCE" - what we call stick time. He was petrified of "flying."
I have posted a number of times that, "Quality of training, and depth of experience," not flight hours, are the most important considerations. In my humble opinion, the best "stick and rudder" pilots who think "way ahead of their aircraft" are CFIGs. Try a 500 mile glider cross country with one approach and off field landing.
Engine(s) are frosting on the cake.
03-31-2007, 10:03 AM
#44
Self Employed.
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Corporate Pilot
Posts: 7,119
Beliefs
I am not sure who the troll is but the ideas I project are abrasive because they are accurate.
I wish I could be as jolly as many of you but over my years as a pilot I have had to accept some unsavory facts about aviation and my chosen profession. Those who read my posts can either disregard and return to a state of denial or they can try to understand the concepts I express and perhaps benefit from them.
If you are in disagreement then please peacefully and with more intelligence than name calling return with debate.
SkyHigh
I wish I could be as jolly as many of you but over my years as a pilot I have had to accept some unsavory facts about aviation and my chosen profession. Those who read my posts can either disregard and return to a state of denial or they can try to understand the concepts I express and perhaps benefit from them.
If you are in disagreement then please peacefully and with more intelligence than name calling return with debate.
SkyHigh
03-31-2007, 10:09 AM
#45
Self Employed.
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Corporate Pilot
Posts: 7,119
Those who can
Originally Posted by Ftrooppilot
Never met a flight instructor who didn't "DO" first - unlike most Business Management professors who never managed anything except their graduate school class schedule.
What leads to a future CRJ pilot - Military pilot, crop duster, CFI, aero club member ? There are many paths to the same goal.
Market demands rule. I know a retired legacy pilot who (in the 60s) went from ticket counter sales agent (no flight time) to FE in six months. He spend more then twenty years as a FE because he had "NO FLYING EXPERIENCE" - what we call stick time. He was petrified of "flying."
I have posted a number of times that, "Quality of training, and depth of experience," not flight hours, are the most important considerations. In my humble opinion, the best "stick and rudder" pilots who think "way ahead of their aircraft" are CFIGs. Try a 500 mile glider cross country with one approach and off field landing.
Engine(s) are frosting on the cake.
What leads to a future CRJ pilot - Military pilot, crop duster, CFI, aero club member ? There are many paths to the same goal.
Market demands rule. I know a retired legacy pilot who (in the 60s) went from ticket counter sales agent (no flight time) to FE in six months. He spend more then twenty years as a FE because he had "NO FLYING EXPERIENCE" - what we call stick time. He was petrified of "flying."
I have posted a number of times that, "Quality of training, and depth of experience," not flight hours, are the most important considerations. In my humble opinion, the best "stick and rudder" pilots who think "way ahead of their aircraft" are CFIGs. Try a 500 mile glider cross country with one approach and off field landing.
Engine(s) are frosting on the cake.
Today kids with only a handful of hours are jumping strait into regional jets. The only training requirement is 60 days in a factory flight school and another 45 in regional ground and flight training. I don't know how much "quality" can be crammed into 6 months. It takes more time to become licensed to cut hair.
The reason is that experience and extensive in depth training is not required anymore.
SkyHigh
03-31-2007, 10:13 AM
#46
Self Employed.
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Corporate Pilot
Posts: 7,119
Spitting
Originally Posted by ANPBird
Thanks FtroopPilot! And to SkyHigh once again for the 1000th time of hearing this from you, THANK YOU for spitting in my face (And CFI's in general) AGAIN about your thoughs about flight instructing. As said above we all had to be trained by instructors at some point, and because I instructed dosen't make me less of a person or a pilot. I had fun, LEARNED, and had the satisfaction of training lots of pilots most of which are in the airlines today!
SkyHigh
03-31-2007, 11:43 AM
#47
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Position: B777 FO FDX, C130 ANG
Posts: 538
Ignorant
Originally Posted by SkyHigh
Those who can do those who can't flight instruct.
Sure we all need instructors however to what end does teaching turns around point do for a future CRJ pilot? Perhaps CFI's should get paid a similar wage to a regional captain and it should be considered a totally separate career path since really they are two separate professions with little in common.
SkyHigh
Sure we all need instructors however to what end does teaching turns around point do for a future CRJ pilot? Perhaps CFI's should get paid a similar wage to a regional captain and it should be considered a totally separate career path since really they are two separate professions with little in common.
SkyHigh
The truth of the matter is that the regionals have completely watered down their training programs to accomodate the new entry level pilot candidate. I know this is a fact because I worked as a check airman at a regional and still have close ties to the training department. Additonally, I have close ties to many training department friends at other regionals that are expressing the same notion. Management along with the FAA have stiffled their ability to police the profession; in turn the standard has been lowered. Most new pilots can't fly the plane without the flight director or autopilot and they do fail online.
Bottom line: 200 hour pilots are allowed to make it through because they are willing to work for penuts, not because there is a shortage of qualified pilots. I have a friend at the FAA who is completely disgusted with by all the incidents happening at the regional airline level, but she says her hands are tied by her bosses as to what she can pursue. A certain regional airline based in the south who flies up north too is responsible for 25% of all the FAA regions incidents, and this is a figure that is directly attributed to the hiring practices. The 200 hour candidate who has basically no PIC at all in anything is now an 1800 hour FO who has probably forgotten more about flying than he ever knew by the time he upgrades and now the FAA gives him a waiver to the ATP minimums because he doesn't have the PIC time required under Part61 to become an ATP and the first time he ever really commands an aircraft is as a CRJ Captain for a 121 carrier. Then said Captain proceeds to be part of the 25% statistic which in many cases nearly kills 50 passengers. Of course the news never hears about it because they just made it by the skin of their teeth when they took of from the wrong runway at XXX...etc...etc...or nearly hit a 737 because they took off without a clearance in BOS...the list goes on and on.
The FAA needs to revamp the 121 pilot requirements with pressure from the Association and Congress. We need to compile the statistics of all these close calls and make a change. ATP for all FAR121 pilots period. We are apparently to far gone to police our selves like most other professions.
03-31-2007, 11:54 AM
#48
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Position: B727
Posts: 194
Originally Posted by Flaps50
Wow, that is a comment that I would say came from someone who has no understanding of his prior profession.
The truth of the matter is that the regionals have completely watered down their training programs to accomodate the new entry level pilot candidate. I know this is a fact because I worked as a check airman at a regional and still have close ties to the training department. Additonally, I have close ties to many training department friends at other regionals that are expressing the same notion. Management along with the FAA have stiffled their ability to police the profession; in turn the standard has been lowered. Most new pilots can't fly the plane without the flight director or autopilot and they do fail online.
Bottom line: 200 hour pilots are allowed to make it through because they are willing to work for penuts, not because there is a shortage of qualified pilots. I have a friend at the FAA who is completely disgusted with by all the incidents happening at the regional airline level, but she says her hands are tied by her bosses as to what she can pursue. A certain regional airline based in the south who flies up north too is responsible for 25% of all the FAA regions incidents, and this is a figure that is directly attributed to the hiring practices. The 200 hour candidate who has basically no PIC at all in anything is now an 1800 hour FO who has probably forgotten more about flying than he ever knew by the time he upgrades and now the FAA gives him a waiver to the ATP minimums because he doesn't have the PIC time required under Part61 to become an ATP and the first time he ever really commands an aircraft is as a CRJ Captain for a 121 carrier. Then said Captain proceeds to be part of the 25% statistic which in many cases nearly kills 50 passengers. Of course the news never hears about it because they just made it by the skin of their teeth when they took of from the wrong runway at XXX...etc...etc...or nearly hit a 737 because they took off without a clearance in BOS...the list goes on and on.
The FAA needs to revamp the 121 pilot requirements with pressure from the Association and Congress. We need to compile the statistics of all these close calls and make a change. ATP for all FAR121 pilots period. We are apparently to far gone to police our selves like most other professions.
The truth of the matter is that the regionals have completely watered down their training programs to accomodate the new entry level pilot candidate. I know this is a fact because I worked as a check airman at a regional and still have close ties to the training department. Additonally, I have close ties to many training department friends at other regionals that are expressing the same notion. Management along with the FAA have stiffled their ability to police the profession; in turn the standard has been lowered. Most new pilots can't fly the plane without the flight director or autopilot and they do fail online.
Bottom line: 200 hour pilots are allowed to make it through because they are willing to work for penuts, not because there is a shortage of qualified pilots. I have a friend at the FAA who is completely disgusted with by all the incidents happening at the regional airline level, but she says her hands are tied by her bosses as to what she can pursue. A certain regional airline based in the south who flies up north too is responsible for 25% of all the FAA regions incidents, and this is a figure that is directly attributed to the hiring practices. The 200 hour candidate who has basically no PIC at all in anything is now an 1800 hour FO who has probably forgotten more about flying than he ever knew by the time he upgrades and now the FAA gives him a waiver to the ATP minimums because he doesn't have the PIC time required under Part61 to become an ATP and the first time he ever really commands an aircraft is as a CRJ Captain for a 121 carrier. Then said Captain proceeds to be part of the 25% statistic which in many cases nearly kills 50 passengers. Of course the news never hears about it because they just made it by the skin of their teeth when they took of from the wrong runway at XXX...etc...etc...or nearly hit a 737 because they took off without a clearance in BOS...the list goes on and on.
The FAA needs to revamp the 121 pilot requirements with pressure from the Association and Congress. We need to compile the statistics of all these close calls and make a change. ATP for all FAR121 pilots period. We are apparently to far gone to police our selves like most other professions.
03-31-2007, 12:15 PM
#49
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Position: B777 FO FDX, C130 ANG
Posts: 538
Originally Posted by org1
You will get lots of flames for what you just wrote, but only from those that can't wrap their minds around the fact that just because you can pass a check for a type rating doesn't mean you're qualified to command a flight.
03-31-2007, 12:28 PM
#50
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Position: Body at sea level; heart at 70,000+
Posts: 1,349
Originally Posted by de727ups
People, just stop feeding the Troll....
"The contemporary use of the term first appeared on Usenet groups in the late 1980s. It is widely thought to be a truncation of the phrase trolling for suckers, . . . with the common meaning of "searching," especially, "searching for those who do not wish to be found." The word likely gained currency because of its apt second meaning, drawn from the trolls portrayed in Scandinavian folklore and children's tales; they are often ugly, obnoxious creatures bent on mischief and wickedness "
Thanks de727ups for educating me. Gives the word a whole different meaning.
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