Piedmont vs. PSA
02-07-2019, 08:39 PM
#12
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2019
Posts: 310
Originally Posted by Flyhigh728
Hey guys,
I’m getting close to regional minimums and need to make a choice soon. I’ve done a lot of reading on both airlines. I’m in the PHL area so I’d like to be based there if possible. Of course piedmont seems like a no brainer, but from what I’ve read they seem to have a lot of issues.
The inefficient 4 on 2 off schedule at PDT is one of the downsides. How easy is it to get PHL at PSA? It seems like they have much better schedules there.
If given the choice between the two, what would you choose and why? Thanks!
I’m getting close to regional minimums and need to make a choice soon. I’ve done a lot of reading on both airlines. I’m in the PHL area so I’d like to be based there if possible. Of course piedmont seems like a no brainer, but from what I’ve read they seem to have a lot of issues.
The inefficient 4 on 2 off schedule at PDT is one of the downsides. How easy is it to get PHL at PSA? It seems like they have much better schedules there.
If given the choice between the two, what would you choose and why? Thanks!
The flow it’s close to 10 years for Piedmont and well over 10 for PSA. You’ll be underpaid compare to almost every other regional the whole time you’re at either.
02-08-2019, 03:54 AM
#14
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2018
Posts: 449
Yup go to Republic.
PSA's Union keeps giving the company concession after concession. Hell it was the Unions idea to let the company force senior FO's into upgrade, and also let the company send those upgrades to any base management feels like.
Right now all the wholly owneds are in a really bad spot, morale is the lowest I've ever seen, and it seems like we're all in a race to the bottom while the other regionals are taking steps to improve things.
Besides you'll be looking at an 8-10 year flow from PSA to AA which is awful.
PSA's Union keeps giving the company concession after concession. Hell it was the Unions idea to let the company force senior FO's into upgrade, and also let the company send those upgrades to any base management feels like.
Right now all the wholly owneds are in a really bad spot, morale is the lowest I've ever seen, and it seems like we're all in a race to the bottom while the other regionals are taking steps to improve things.
Besides you'll be looking at an 8-10 year flow from PSA to AA which is awful.
02-08-2019, 05:51 AM
#17
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2012
Position: CRJ FO
Posts: 4,599
There is a lot of misinformation and half truths on this thread. As with many threads here on APC so take all of this for whatever you think it’s worth. I would encourage you to reach out to actual pilots flying at the prospective companies you’re interested in to get a good idea of exactly what life on reserve and on the line is like and what you can expect.
Wanting PHL, you have basically 3 options:
*Republic
*PSA
*Piedmont
Republic: Great contract and pay for a regional airline. A friend of mine is a recruiter for them and told me recently that because of their current wait for training, it will likely be spring - summer 2020 before anyone interested right now even touches the 175 out flying the line. That is a very long time to wait to start building experience and time.
PSA: PHL is somewhat junior on the FO side. You won’t have any issue getting it relatively quick. You will be on reserve for quite a while at PSA. Reserve here (and at any of the AA wholly-owneds) is not great. That being said PSA just passed some improvements to our reserve rules which will improve things. Once you’re a line-holder at PSA you can take advantage of our SAP (Schedule Adjustment Period). It allows you to drop down to a minimum of 65 hours of flying if you want to maximize your days off, pick up flying to maximize your credit, or swap and drop trips to get the days off you want/need. It offers unparalleled schedule flexibility. The processing times for requests tend to be slow now that we have over tripled in size since it was first rolled out, but I have personally never had any issues getting all the days I need off. The pay override is a gain for most of the pilots here (though there are some who would disagree with this). You will be forced to upgrade to Captain as soon as you have 1,000
SIC and you can be displaced out of base. This may change by the time you’re eligible etc but as of right now that’s where things sit.
Piedmont: I don’t know as much about Piedmont. Mostly what I’ve heard from talking to friends there or running into their pilots. I do know that they don’t have any real schedule flexibility and you can expect to only be off 11-12 days /month 75-85 hours. Not great. Piedmont was the wholly-owned with the quickest flow but I don’t know if that holds true now. It seems that time to flow ebbs and flows at the 3 AA regionals depending on when you were hired. Some people will flow in 5 years. Other are projected to be around 7-8 years.
I can really only speak about PSA from first-hand experience. I’ve been here a few years and overall it’s been okay (it’s a regional). I’ve worked at worse places and I’ve worked at better places. We are still growing and it is my understanding that PHL is going to continue to grow at a more rapid pace than our other bases. We begin swapping out CRJ200s for new CRJ900s this year.
That being said PSA is not in fact giving concessions as the poster above said. Of the 3 AA wholly-owned regionals we seem to enjoy the benefits of the best working relationship between ALPA and management. Our contract isn’t up until 2023 so until then I would expect small gains here and there. Classes are full and attrition is manageable at all 3 AA wholly-owneds though so management doesn’t see any real need to make significant enhancements to pay or the current flow agreements. Looking at the hiring data, if AA is your #1 career destination your best shot to get there is working for one of their wholly-owned regionals. And it PHL is your goal that really leaves you 2 options. If you have any specific questions about PSA (or any other regional) feel free to PM me and I will do my best to help.
Wanting PHL, you have basically 3 options:
*Republic
*PSA
*Piedmont
Republic: Great contract and pay for a regional airline. A friend of mine is a recruiter for them and told me recently that because of their current wait for training, it will likely be spring - summer 2020 before anyone interested right now even touches the 175 out flying the line. That is a very long time to wait to start building experience and time.
PSA: PHL is somewhat junior on the FO side. You won’t have any issue getting it relatively quick. You will be on reserve for quite a while at PSA. Reserve here (and at any of the AA wholly-owneds) is not great. That being said PSA just passed some improvements to our reserve rules which will improve things. Once you’re a line-holder at PSA you can take advantage of our SAP (Schedule Adjustment Period). It allows you to drop down to a minimum of 65 hours of flying if you want to maximize your days off, pick up flying to maximize your credit, or swap and drop trips to get the days off you want/need. It offers unparalleled schedule flexibility. The processing times for requests tend to be slow now that we have over tripled in size since it was first rolled out, but I have personally never had any issues getting all the days I need off. The pay override is a gain for most of the pilots here (though there are some who would disagree with this). You will be forced to upgrade to Captain as soon as you have 1,000
SIC and you can be displaced out of base. This may change by the time you’re eligible etc but as of right now that’s where things sit.
Piedmont: I don’t know as much about Piedmont. Mostly what I’ve heard from talking to friends there or running into their pilots. I do know that they don’t have any real schedule flexibility and you can expect to only be off 11-12 days /month 75-85 hours. Not great. Piedmont was the wholly-owned with the quickest flow but I don’t know if that holds true now. It seems that time to flow ebbs and flows at the 3 AA regionals depending on when you were hired. Some people will flow in 5 years. Other are projected to be around 7-8 years.
I can really only speak about PSA from first-hand experience. I’ve been here a few years and overall it’s been okay (it’s a regional). I’ve worked at worse places and I’ve worked at better places. We are still growing and it is my understanding that PHL is going to continue to grow at a more rapid pace than our other bases. We begin swapping out CRJ200s for new CRJ900s this year.
That being said PSA is not in fact giving concessions as the poster above said. Of the 3 AA wholly-owned regionals we seem to enjoy the benefits of the best working relationship between ALPA and management. Our contract isn’t up until 2023 so until then I would expect small gains here and there. Classes are full and attrition is manageable at all 3 AA wholly-owneds though so management doesn’t see any real need to make significant enhancements to pay or the current flow agreements. Looking at the hiring data, if AA is your #1 career destination your best shot to get there is working for one of their wholly-owned regionals. And it PHL is your goal that really leaves you 2 options. If you have any specific questions about PSA (or any other regional) feel free to PM me and I will do my best to help.
02-08-2019, 06:24 AM
#18
On Reserve
Joined APC: Jan 2016
Posts: 15
Just wanted to add my 2 cents on Republic. I've been there since 2016. I'm a CA now. Upgrades are less than 2 years and rapidly dropping. My pay and QOL is very good (for a regional). I live in Delaware and drive 25 minutes to work. Management is investing heavily in our equipment and training department. We're building our own sims at our training center in Indianapolis. Yes, the newhire classes are full for the rest of the year which is , obviously, a huge drawback. This is because they are using their training capacity now to make new Captains. Next year they will probably focus again on new hires. It's not perfect and I don't drink the cool aid, but I've been happy here. Our current contract is amenable next year and we expect further improvements.
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02-08-2019, 07:15 AM
#19
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2013
Position: Light Chop Reporter
Posts: 318
Originally Posted by DeltaTango
Just wanted to add my 2 cents on Republic. I've been there since 2016. I'm a CA now. Upgrades are less than 2 years and rapidly dropping. My pay and QOL is very good (for a regional). I live in Delaware and drive 25 minutes to work. Management is investing heavily in our equipment and training department. We're building our own sims at our training center in Indianapolis. Yes, the newhire classes are full for the rest of the year which is , obviously, a huge drawback. This is because they are using their training capacity now to make new Captains. Next year they will probably focus again on new hires. It's not perfect and I don't drink the cool aid, but I've been happy here. Our current contract is amenable next year and we expect further improvements.
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The only draw back is that we're super staffed right now, and haven't acquired any additional flying lately, which means the airline is being very selective. While this won't be the case forever, as others have said, it is right now.
02-08-2019, 07:18 AM
#20
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2018
Posts: 449
Originally Posted by chrisreedrules
There is a lot of misinformation and half truths on this thread. As with many threads here on APC so take all of this for whatever you think it’s worth. I would encourage you to reach out to actual pilots flying at the prospective companies you’re interested in to get a good idea of exactly what life on reserve and on the line is like and what you can expect.
Wanting PHL, you have basically 3 options:
*Republic
*PSA
*Piedmont
Republic: Great contract and pay for a regional airline. A friend of mine is a recruiter for them and told me recently that because of their current wait for training, it will likely be spring - summer 2020 before anyone interested right now even touches the 175 out flying the line. That is a very long time to wait to start building experience and time.
PSA: PHL is somewhat junior on the FO side. You won’t have any issue getting it relatively quick. You will be on reserve for quite a while at PSA. Reserve here (and at any of the AA wholly-owneds) is not great. That being said PSA just passed some improvements to our reserve rules which will improve things. Once you’re a line-holder at PSA you can take advantage of our SAP (Schedule Adjustment Period). It allows you to drop down to a minimum of 65 hours of flying if you want to maximize your days off, pick up flying to maximize your credit, or swap and drop trips to get the days off you want/need. It offers unparalleled schedule flexibility. The processing times for requests tend to be slow now that we have over tripled in size since it was first rolled out, but I have personally never had any issues getting all the days I need off. The pay override is a gain for most of the pilots here (though there are some who would disagree with this). You will be forced to upgrade to Captain as soon as you have 1,000
SIC and you can be displaced out of base. This may change by the time you’re eligible etc but as of right now that’s where things sit.
Piedmont: I don’t know as much about Piedmont. Mostly what I’ve heard from talking to friends there or running into their pilots. I do know that they don’t have any real schedule flexibility and you can expect to only be off 11-12 days /month 75-85 hours. Not great. Piedmont was the wholly-owned with the quickest flow but I don’t know if that holds true now. It seems that time to flow ebbs and flows at the 3 AA regionals depending on when you were hired. Some people will flow in 5 years. Other are projected to be around 7-8 years.
I can really only speak about PSA from first-hand experience. I’ve been here a few years and overall it’s been okay (it’s a regional). I’ve worked at worse places and I’ve worked at better places. We are still growing and it is my understanding that PHL is going to continue to grow at a more rapid pace than our other bases. We begin swapping out CRJ200s for new CRJ900s this year.
That being said PSA is not in fact giving concessions as the poster above said. Of the 3 AA wholly-owned regionals we seem to enjoy the benefits of the best working relationship between ALPA and management. Our contract isn’t up until 2023 so until then I would expect small gains here and there. Classes are full and attrition is manageable at all 3 AA wholly-owneds though so management doesn’t see any real need to make significant enhancements to pay or the current flow agreements. Looking at the hiring data, if AA is your #1 career destination your best shot to get there is working for one of their wholly-owned regionals. And it PHL is your goal that really leaves you 2 options. If you have any specific questions about PSA (or any other regional) feel free to PM me and I will do my best to help.
Wanting PHL, you have basically 3 options:
*Republic
*PSA
*Piedmont
Republic: Great contract and pay for a regional airline. A friend of mine is a recruiter for them and told me recently that because of their current wait for training, it will likely be spring - summer 2020 before anyone interested right now even touches the 175 out flying the line. That is a very long time to wait to start building experience and time.
PSA: PHL is somewhat junior on the FO side. You won’t have any issue getting it relatively quick. You will be on reserve for quite a while at PSA. Reserve here (and at any of the AA wholly-owneds) is not great. That being said PSA just passed some improvements to our reserve rules which will improve things. Once you’re a line-holder at PSA you can take advantage of our SAP (Schedule Adjustment Period). It allows you to drop down to a minimum of 65 hours of flying if you want to maximize your days off, pick up flying to maximize your credit, or swap and drop trips to get the days off you want/need. It offers unparalleled schedule flexibility. The processing times for requests tend to be slow now that we have over tripled in size since it was first rolled out, but I have personally never had any issues getting all the days I need off. The pay override is a gain for most of the pilots here (though there are some who would disagree with this). You will be forced to upgrade to Captain as soon as you have 1,000
SIC and you can be displaced out of base. This may change by the time you’re eligible etc but as of right now that’s where things sit.
Piedmont: I don’t know as much about Piedmont. Mostly what I’ve heard from talking to friends there or running into their pilots. I do know that they don’t have any real schedule flexibility and you can expect to only be off 11-12 days /month 75-85 hours. Not great. Piedmont was the wholly-owned with the quickest flow but I don’t know if that holds true now. It seems that time to flow ebbs and flows at the 3 AA regionals depending on when you were hired. Some people will flow in 5 years. Other are projected to be around 7-8 years.
I can really only speak about PSA from first-hand experience. I’ve been here a few years and overall it’s been okay (it’s a regional). I’ve worked at worse places and I’ve worked at better places. We are still growing and it is my understanding that PHL is going to continue to grow at a more rapid pace than our other bases. We begin swapping out CRJ200s for new CRJ900s this year.
That being said PSA is not in fact giving concessions as the poster above said. Of the 3 AA wholly-owned regionals we seem to enjoy the benefits of the best working relationship between ALPA and management. Our contract isn’t up until 2023 so until then I would expect small gains here and there. Classes are full and attrition is manageable at all 3 AA wholly-owneds though so management doesn’t see any real need to make significant enhancements to pay or the current flow agreements. Looking at the hiring data, if AA is your #1 career destination your best shot to get there is working for one of their wholly-owned regionals. And it PHL is your goal that really leaves you 2 options. If you have any specific questions about PSA (or any other regional) feel free to PM me and I will do my best to help.
The only guys who haven't taken concessions at PSA are the senior captains, who benefit most from the small bump in flow. They got that at the expense of the junior pilots.
Wait for a class at Republic, and don't pay attention to the flow. If you can't find a major that will hire you before you hit the 8-10 year flow at PSA then you've got bigger issues.
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