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-   -   AA Flow-Thrus Should Require a Degree (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/regional/121968-aa-flow-thrus-should-require-degree.html)

Excargodog 06-11-2019 08:05 AM


Originally Posted by sflpilot (Post 2834759)
I believe it’s been discussed before on these forums that the flow terms and conditions can be changed by American at any time. Or just completely canceled for that matter. Right now I think it’s around 10 years to flow and a lot can happen in that time.

The sad fact is that AA will NEVER have much difficulty filling their mainline pilot needs. They don’t NEED flow for that. It is their wholly owneds rosters that are the difficulty, and the longer they can keep pilots trapped at the regional the easier it is for the recruiters.

And the more retiring military in their forties they can keep putting ahead of the regional flow guys at the major, the lower they can keep the average longevity pay down at the major too. Don’t believe for a second that the green eyeshade guys in accounting don’t calculate how much that saves down to the last dollar either.

jonnyjetprop 06-13-2019 03:50 AM

No, it can’t. It’s part of the contract and the pilot union would have to agree to removing it or American would have to go bankrupt. The later is what happened to the American Eagle pilots back in the day.



Originally Posted by sflpilot (Post 2834759)
I believe it’s been discussed before on these forums that the flow terms and conditions can be changed by American at any time. Or just completely canceled for that matter. Right now I think it’s around 10 years to flow and a lot can happen in that time.


Excargodog 06-13-2019 06:57 AM


Originally Posted by jonnyjetprop (Post 2835957)
No, it can’t. It’s part of the contract and the pilot union would have to agree to removing it or American would have to go bankrupt. The later is what happened to the American Eagle pilots back in the day.

And how hard is a quickie bankruptcy? Republic did one while they were still operating at a profit just to get rid of 50-seat flying contracts that were costing them a little profit. All it takes is a little creative accounting as a willing bankruptcy court judge:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/trave...able/81035522/

You can CLAIM anything you want, but flow agreements are written in smoke.

dera 06-13-2019 07:04 AM


Originally Posted by Excargodog (Post 2836010)
And how hard is a quickie bankruptcy? Republic did one while they were still operating at a profit just to get rid of 50-seat flying contracts that were costing them a little profit. All it takes is a little creative accounting as a willing bankruptcy court judge:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/trave...able/81035522/

You can CLAIM anything you want, but flow agreements are written in smoke.

That's why the flow agreements survived 9/11, 2008 financial meltdown etc...?

Learflyer 06-13-2019 07:08 AM


Originally Posted by UnprotectdPilot (Post 2824378)
American Airlines should change their flow programs to require their regional pilots to have a 4-year degree before they are eligible to flow.

The benefit is obvious: it would make American pilots more educated like Delta pilots which, in turn, would make AA a better, smarter company. Also, AA wholly-owned pilots should be required to wear hats.

Do you have a poster or two of Delta pilots in your bedroom or something?

Wink 06-13-2019 08:01 AM


Originally Posted by sflpilot (Post 2834759)
I believe it’s been discussed before on these forums that the flow terms and conditions can be changed by American at any time. Or just completely canceled for that matter. Right now I think it’s around 10 years to flow and a lot can happen in that time.

It's not that simple, it is a Letter of Agreement in the pilot contract so to remove or amend that agreement requires the pilot union's endorsement as well. I am not worried about that conversation even starting because it would be operational suicide. Management has already had to throw money at all 3 WOs over the past 3 years to stem retention and help recruitment, if they took away our biggest motivator for staying in the middle of a worsening pilot shortage the operation would assuredly implode as pilots left for anywhere and everywhere.

word302 06-13-2019 08:21 AM


Originally Posted by Wink (Post 2836049)
It's not that simple, it is a Letter of Agreement in the pilot contract so to remove or amend that agreement requires the pilot union's endorsement as well. I am not worried about that conversation even starting because it would be operational suicide. Management has already had to throw money at all 3 WOs over the past 3 years to stem retention and help recruitment, if they took away our biggest motivator for staying in the middle of a worsening pilot shortage the operation would assuredly implode as pilots left for anywhere and everywhere.

You guys realize the flow has been throttled even in recent history? Like in the last 3 years or so. It's a gimmick to keep your wages suppressed, nothing more.

Upntheair27 06-13-2019 05:00 PM


Originally Posted by Learflyer (Post 2836016)
Do you have a poster or two of Delta pilots in your bedroom or something?

Time to replace batteries in your sarcasm detector.

Learflyer 06-13-2019 05:05 PM


Originally Posted by Upntheair27 (Post 2836334)
Time to replace batteries in your sarcasm detector.

I was wondering about that. I erred in the wrong direction on this one. ;)

Wink 06-13-2019 07:52 PM


Originally Posted by word302 (Post 2836067)
You guys realize the flow has been throttled even in recent history? Like in the last 3 years or so. It's a gimmick to keep your wages suppressed, nothing more.

Okay? My post was in reference to the idea that the flow would be outright cancelled, not sure what the intention of yours is - especially as this LOA gets us marginally higher rates on 50 seat flying than SkyBest....


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