Pilot Shortage: Real or Nah?
07-22-2019 | 04:21 AM
#91
In a land of unicorns
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 7,072
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From: Whale FO
Generated revenue is a significant piece of the pie, but leverage at the negotiating table is the biggest piece. Pilots at the legacies all have restrictive scope clauses which force the company to deal with only them. What is left over is sold to the lowest bidder and those companies have to keep cost down to a minimum to be competitive for contracts. The regionals just don’t have the same leverage. If one says no, another will say yes. If United pilots say no, the company is stuck dealing with United pilots.
07-22-2019 | 07:37 AM
#92
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 45,137
Likes: 797
From: Engines Turn or People Swim
Generated revenue is a significant piece of the pie, but leverage at the negotiating table is the biggest piece. Pilots at the legacies all have restrictive scope clauses which force the company to deal with only them. What is left over is sold to the lowest bidder and those companies have to keep cost down to a minimum to be competitive for contracts. The regionals just don’t have the same leverage. If one says no, another will say yes. If United pilots say no, the company is stuck dealing with United pilots.
07-22-2019 | 07:52 AM
#93
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 4,116
Likes: 1
Ask silly questions. Get silly answers.
07-22-2019 | 11:48 AM
#94
On Reserve
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 163
Likes: 1
You’re taking it out of the context (not surprisingly) of the discussion comparing the 2500 TT regional guy to the 8000 hour mainline guy.
It’s a question of what the revenue generated can support for wages. Larger planes pay more because they can afford to.
But go on trying to pick a fight and argue with everybody.
It’s a question of what the revenue generated can support for wages. Larger planes pay more because they can afford to.
But go on trying to pick a fight and argue with everybody.
07-22-2019 | 12:02 PM
#95
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 45,137
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From: Engines Turn or People Swim
You are aware there are carriers were all pilots get paid the same regardless of airframe. Some even were the largest is multiples in gross weight compared to the smallest... And there are entire pilot groups that make more than others flying larger equipment that generate greater revenue...
All the leverage in the world won't get you paid above the ability of your equipment to generate revenue.
Vast revenue generating capacity won't get you paid above market rate to keep it staffed if you have no leverage.
RJ's have relatively little revenue generating capacity and almost no leverage under the whipsaw model. The gains over the last few years were 100% due to market forces (attracting noobs who have options, and trying to retain some lifers who might be on the fence).
07-22-2019 | 12:09 PM
#96
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 3,578
Likes: 48
From: Semi-Retired...
Generated revenue is a significant piece of the pie, but leverage at the negotiating table is the biggest piece. Pilots at the legacies all have restrictive scope clauses which force the company to deal with only them. What is left over is sold to the lowest bidder and those companies have to keep cost down to a minimum to be competitive for contracts. The regionals just don’t have the same leverage. If one says no, another will say yes. If United pilots say no, the company is stuck dealing with United pilots.
You can have 100% of the leverage, and you’re still not going to get more than the plane’s revenue will support.
07-22-2019 | 12:10 PM
#97
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2014
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From: Semi-Retired...
All depends on two things: Revenue capacity of the equipment and your leverage.
All the leverage in the world won't get you paid above the ability of your equipment to generate revenue.
Vast revenue generating capacity won't get you paid above market rate to keep it staffed if you have no leverage.
RJ's have relatively little revenue generating capacity and almost no leverage under the whipsaw model. The gains over the last few years were 100% due to market forces (attracting noobs who have options, and trying to retain some lifers who might be on the fence).
All the leverage in the world won't get you paid above the ability of your equipment to generate revenue.
Vast revenue generating capacity won't get you paid above market rate to keep it staffed if you have no leverage.
RJ's have relatively little revenue generating capacity and almost no leverage under the whipsaw model. The gains over the last few years were 100% due to market forces (attracting noobs who have options, and trying to retain some lifers who might be on the fence).
The gains are entirely due to supply-demand.
07-22-2019 | 01:01 PM
#98
On Reserve
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 163
Likes: 1
All depends on two things: Revenue capacity of the equipment and your leverage.
All the leverage in the world won't get you paid above the ability of your equipment to generate revenue.
Vast revenue generating capacity won't get you paid above market rate to keep it staffed if you have no leverage.
RJ's have relatively little revenue generating capacity and almost no leverage under the whipsaw model. The gains over the last few years were 100% due to market forces (attracting noobs who have options, and trying to retain some lifers who might be on the fence).
All the leverage in the world won't get you paid above the ability of your equipment to generate revenue.
Vast revenue generating capacity won't get you paid above market rate to keep it staffed if you have no leverage.
RJ's have relatively little revenue generating capacity and almost no leverage under the whipsaw model. The gains over the last few years were 100% due to market forces (attracting noobs who have options, and trying to retain some lifers who might be on the fence).
07-22-2019 | 02:02 PM
#99
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 45,137
Likes: 797
From: Engines Turn or People Swim
They aren't paid to be pilots, they are paid to be military officers. On exactly the same pay scale as other officers (some of whom in other specialties also get extra hazard/hardship pay). They also pay targeted retention bonuses to try to minimize excess attrition when the airlines are hiring but that only goes goes so far (they cannot offer airline-level pay, and most certainly not to age 65).
Civilian pilots? The airlines set the pace there, corporate employers have to pony up quite a bit to attract and retain folks who would be competitive for major airlines. In fact they are feeling the pain right now. You're going to see the bottom of the 91/135 barrel go away for at least a few years.
07-22-2019 | 03:22 PM
#100
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Aug 2016
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I’m gonna go on a limb and say that the little 50 seater can generate just as much revenue per seat mile as the international wide body flights, anyone that disagrees should try to book a one way from let’s say sav-jfk on delta. That flight r/t cost about $600, now go from sav-jfk-ams, that flight cost $900 same days with a bunch more tax. It’s very common for a one leg regional flight to a hub to cost a bunch more than the major charges for connection to a bigger plane. Think of the whole ghost tickets.
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