Airlines requiring part 117 extensions
07-29-2019 | 12:15 PM
#71
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Joined: Sep 2009
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I'm assuming your being serious and not being facetious...
We were talking about anticipating delays and 117 extensions - not whether it was legal to depart or not. To answer your question directly if you are leaving and arriving within the same hour then the METAR is controlling (this is the Regional sub forum...).
To further the anticipating delays discussion - we have synoptic discussions, Satellite, IR, Radar, Constant Pressure charts, SFC plots, Skew-T, etc, etc.
We were talking about anticipating delays and 117 extensions - not whether it was legal to depart or not. To answer your question directly if you are leaving and arriving within the same hour then the METAR is controlling (this is the Regional sub forum...).
To further the anticipating delays discussion - we have synoptic discussions, Satellite, IR, Radar, Constant Pressure charts, SFC plots, Skew-T, etc, etc.
If you’re going to argue that “unforeseen circumstances” weren’t unforeseen because charts showed this WX was forecast then I think you will lose that every time. Circumstance had to have been known in time for a schedule change to avoid. Schedules come out the month prior.
In short, WX, MECH, ATC, you can be extended, you may opt out, your options for that vary with airlines.
07-30-2019 | 05:29 PM
#72
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Joined: Sep 2016
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Found it, thanks to the guy that posted the site with the legal interpretations.
https://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/agc/practice_areas/regulations/interpretations/Data/interps/2014/Yu-Southwest%20Airlines%20Pilots%20Assoc%20-%20(2014)%20Legal%20Interpretation.pdf
It says it all right there about "automatic extensions." I was talking to my CA during my trip here at PSA, and it is a common belief that extensions are automatic here. Absolutely not true and here's the document that says as much. Spread the good word.
https://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/agc/practice_areas/regulations/interpretations/Data/interps/2014/Yu-Southwest%20Airlines%20Pilots%20Assoc%20-%20(2014)%20Legal%20Interpretation.pdf
It says it all right there about "automatic extensions." I was talking to my CA during my trip here at PSA, and it is a common belief that extensions are automatic here. Absolutely not true and here's the document that says as much. Spread the good word.
08-08-2019 | 12:37 PM
#73
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Joined: Jan 2018
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Found it, thanks to the guy that posted the site with the legal interpretations.
https://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/agc/practice_areas/regulations/interpretations/Data/interps/2014/Yu-Southwest%20Airlines%20Pilots%20Assoc%20-%20(2014)%20Legal%20Interpretation.pdf
It says it all right there about "automatic extensions." I was talking to my CA during my trip here at PSA, and it is a common belief that extensions are automatic here. Absolutely not true and here's the document that says as much. Spread the good word.
https://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/agc/practice_areas/regulations/interpretations/Data/interps/2014/Yu-Southwest%20Airlines%20Pilots%20Assoc%20-%20(2014)%20Legal%20Interpretation.pdf
It says it all right there about "automatic extensions." I was talking to my CA during my trip here at PSA, and it is a common belief that extensions are automatic here. Absolutely not true and here's the document that says as much. Spread the good word.
08-08-2019 | 12:53 PM
#74
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Joined: Jul 2018
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That being said the only way to not accept the extension without talking to a chief is to call fatigued which is a pretty simple and painless process in my experience.
08-08-2019 | 01:07 PM
#75
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 45,129
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From: Engines Turn or People Swim
Yeah the 30 minute extension is automatic and holds no caveats, longer than 30 minutes and they will contact the pic to see if they'll accept the extension. My experience with PSA is that they usually only check with the Captain then assume the rest of the crew falls in with his or her decision.
That being said the only way to not accept the extension without talking to a chief is to call fatigued which is a pretty simple and painless process in my experience.
That being said the only way to not accept the extension without talking to a chief is to call fatigued which is a pretty simple and painless process in my experience.
08-08-2019 | 03:01 PM
#76
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Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 3,578
Likes: 48
From: Semi-Retired...
No, it does not. It specifically says the concurrence may not be prospective. The only time a 117 duty time signature on the release may be used for the 30 minute extension is when the need for the extension is known at the time of signature.
08-08-2019 | 03:03 PM
#77
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Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 3,578
Likes: 48
From: Semi-Retired...
Found it, thanks to the guy that posted the site with the legal interpretations.
https://www.faa.gov/about/office_org...rpretation.pdf
It says it all right there about "automatic extensions." I was talking to my CA during my trip here at PSA, and it is a common belief that extensions are automatic here. Absolutely not true and here's the document that says as much. Spread the good word.
https://www.faa.gov/about/office_org...rpretation.pdf
It says it all right there about "automatic extensions." I was talking to my CA during my trip here at PSA, and it is a common belief that extensions are automatic here. Absolutely not true and here's the document that says as much. Spread the good word.
08-08-2019 | 03:04 PM
#78
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 3,578
Likes: 48
From: Semi-Retired...
Yeah the 30 minute extension is automatic and holds no caveats, longer than 30 minutes and they will contact the pic to see if they'll accept the extension. My experience with PSA is that they usually only check with the Captain then assume the rest of the crew falls in with his or her decision.
That being said the only way to not accept the extension without talking to a chief is to call fatigued which is a pretty simple and painless process in my experience.
That being said the only way to not accept the extension without talking to a chief is to call fatigued which is a pretty simple and painless process in my experience.
08-08-2019 | 04:02 PM
#79
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Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 565
Likes: 6
From: Poolside
Then your FOM needs to go back to the POI with a copy of the interpretation attached. 14 CFR 121.135(a)(4) says the manual may “not be contrary to any applicable Federal regulation...”
08-08-2019 | 05:56 PM
#80
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Joined: Sep 2016
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The real question is, who is the brave soul that’s going to risk their career over it?
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