Man, does that say it like it is. I'm really, really sick of this topic. The low-timer debate has been beaten to death. It's added nothing to the knowledge exchange here and has just resulted in degrading professional pilots to the point where they are calling each other names.

How about we move on to other topics? I'd rather listen to Saab talk about his girlfriend than read another bleedin LTP post.

 

im cool with closing this debate if we can agree that low time pilots are qualified to do the job.

 

I'll talk to the safety guys and see what I can dig up. I know the military has done studies on this topic, and that is why they limit what inexperienced pilots can do by reg.

 

you have to remember to that flight times in the military are on a much different scale. You can spend an ENTIRE 20 year career in the military and only end up with 5000 hours if your lucky, probably more like 3000 hours.

So typically an experienced pilot would be based on how many years hes been flying rather than his total flight time.

in 4 years of full time military flying i flew 1100 hours. sad

 

True, but with the military having a much different training style, syllabus, selection process, whatever, it's kind of an apples to oranges comparison.

Where a civilian may reach a certain point on the curve (if you will) around 4-5000 with 1-2000 PIC, a military pilot may hit that peak at the 12-1500 hr mark. Especially a single seat/tactical jet pilot thats gets more take offs/approaches/landings per hour of flight time. Just rough numbers, not exact science. Just due to the flying intensity, training, ect.

Not making a case of who's a better pilot or who makes a better airline pilot or who's has it harder between a tanker/transport pilot vs. fighter pilot vs. RJ pilot. It's just the way it is.

 

right i know where youre coming from, i mean as far as the safety records go and accident data, i was just pointing out that the data may be skewed since generally speaking every military pilot is a low time pilot

 

I see. If I remember correctly, and you would know better than me, but where a civ pilot has a high accident rate in the 5-800 hr tt range, a mil pilot's is somewhere aroung the 2-400.

You know, the point where you have most of the training you need to operate, just not the experience in THAT SPECIFIC enviornment to keep you out of trouble.

But yes, a mil pilot is a "low time pilot", but the experience gained in that lower total number of hours is more compressed than a civ pilot.

 

After retiring from the USAF and being hired at TWA, I was shooting the breeze with some of my new hire classmates.

We had several young guys...23 years old at the time...and one asked me how much time I had. Now, I was 44 then and probably seemed the ancient mariner to him. My answer was 'about 4000 hours, not counting pilot training'.

He said, 'Wow, I have 3500'. One of the advantages of 20 more years is the awareness to save one's ammo until needed...and so I smiled and congratulated him on his accomplishments.

Folks need to realize that there is a huge difference between accumulation and accomplishment. Maybe that young guy eventually came to this realization.

In my present job, I work with many young folks. I take great pride in their accomplishments and am always impressed by their capacity to learn. But, aside from their super attitudes and stellar study skills, they are still only 'x' days old...and have only seen 'y' takeoffs and landings. Some things in life are only learned by living. These lessons are not found in books...they can only be realized through participating in many sunrises and sunsets.

Are these relatively low time pilots qualified to 'do the job'? Yes...but that's a guarded answer. As long as we keep ourselves within the bell curve, things should be OK. But, let's not push these folks too near the edge. It wouldn't be fair. They need more seasoning time before they want to wander out near that edge. Out there, things aren't nearly so willing to accept error.

 

EXACTLY! Many sunrises and sunsets (the accumulation of unique experiences while living) HELPS to make a seasoned pilot. Very good metaphor with wondering close to the edge.

In a previous life, when I would offer a chance for an employee to solve a problem/work on a project/or develop a unique opportunity . . . I would always give him/her more time than necessary AND I would have my back up plan ready to launch if/when the time came. I can positively say that there was always room for improvement and better decision skills and utilization of information available.

But this said, I would use it as an opportunity to HELP develop their thinking skills by showing them new and different ways to accomplish what I was after. Ways in which they could not see because of a lack of exposure. It was not their fault, they just were not exposed to different types of thinking.

 

i still say give em a chance