Go Back  Airline Pilot Central Forums > Airline Pilot Forums > Regional
Article on Flight Shaming and Carbon Emission >

Article on Flight Shaming and Carbon Emission

Search

Notices
Regional Regional Airlines

Article on Flight Shaming and Carbon Emission

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 12-01-2019 | 03:53 PM
  #91  
Banned
 
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 4,208
Likes: 7
Default

Originally Posted by Mesabah
Yes, but if you believe the scientists, it is full stop on ALL carbon emissions within the next decade.
Not all scientists agree that climate change is caused by man. Many don't.
Reply
Old 12-01-2019 | 05:40 PM
  #92  
rickair7777's Avatar
Prime Minister/Moderator
Veteran: Navy
 
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 45,143
Likes: 800
From: Engines Turn or People Swim
Default

Originally Posted by SonicFlyer
Wrong, there always needs to be competition. That's how efficiency happens and progress is made.
Generally true, but for some critical functions in society it's better to give up some competitive efficiency in favor of regulated stability/reliability. Law enforcement and defense are prime examples of things you REALLY don't want privatized. Also the NRC and FAA.

You can (and should) have a hybrid system wherever possible. In the case of the power grid management and oversight by the government, with commercial contracts for new equipment, MX, and operation of most equipment. You don't need a vast bloated government bureaucracy for ever aspect of that.
Reply
Old 12-01-2019 | 06:03 PM
  #93  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 5,567
Likes: 230
From: UNA
Default

Originally Posted by GogglesPisano
As someone posted in a previous graph, most airliners have better MPG/passenger than cars.
only way that works is if you assume 1 person per car but every seat on an airliner is full. airliners getting 80 MPG per seat sounds great compared to a 28 MPG SUV but the SUV has 5 seats giving it a 140MPG/seat full or 112MPG for a family of 4
Reply
Old 12-01-2019 | 06:23 PM
  #94  
New Hire
 
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Default

Originally Posted by Gone Flying
only way that works is if you assume 1 person per car but every seat on an airliner is full. airliners getting 80 MPG per seat sounds great compared to a 28 MPG SUV but the SUV has 5 seats giving it a 140MPG/seat full or 112MPG for a family of 4
Even if full (they're often not), that SUV isn't carrying any useful payload other than its occupants so MPG is only part of the equation in that scenario. Apples to oranges comparison. Fuel consumption per pound of payload carried would be a much more useful metric IMO in terms of utility. Of course rail dominates here, but only for things that can wait a while.

Sent from my GM1915 using Tapatalk
Reply
Old 12-01-2019 | 07:48 PM
  #95  
rickair7777's Avatar
Prime Minister/Moderator
Veteran: Navy
 
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 45,143
Likes: 800
From: Engines Turn or People Swim
Default

Originally Posted by Gone Flying
only way that works is if you assume 1 person per car but every seat on an airliner is full. airliners getting 80 MPG per seat sounds great compared to a 28 MPG SUV but the SUV has 5 seats giving it a 140MPG/seat full or 112MPG for a family of 4
This is a correct rough approximation.

It does not however account for cargo carriage, which is significant on larger jets (non-RJs).

It also does not account for indirect environmental and societal costs of driving for days on longer trips. Also does not account for the difficulty involved in driving across oceans, or desolate wastelands.
Reply
Old 12-02-2019 | 07:19 AM
  #96  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 5,567
Likes: 230
From: UNA
Default

Originally Posted by rickair7777
This is a correct rough approximation.

It does not however account for cargo carriage, which is significant on larger jets (non-RJs).

It also does not account for indirect environmental and societal costs of driving for days on longer trips. Also does not account for the difficulty involved in driving across oceans, or desolate wastelands.
no doubt there are many other factors and overall air travel generates many efficiencies lost on surface transportation. but just a blanket ststment saying planes have better MPG than cars by using per seat on a plane vs per vehicle on a car can be a flawed logic; assuming you are traveling with your family and not alone
Reply
Old 12-02-2019 | 09:08 AM
  #97  
Banned
 
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 4,208
Likes: 7
Default

Originally Posted by rickair7777
Generally true, but for some critical functions in society it's better to give up some competitive efficiency in favor of regulated stability/reliability. Law enforcement and defense are prime examples of things you REALLY don't want privatized. Also the NRC and FAA.
I agree with law enforcement and defense but the FAA should be privatized, it isn't even Constitutional. Canada has a private ATC system and it seems to be working well for them.


Originally Posted by rickair7777
You can (and should) have a hybrid system wherever possible. In the case of the power grid management and oversight by the government, with commercial contracts for new equipment, MX, and operation of most equipment. You don't need a vast bloated government bureaucracy for ever aspect of that.
No, that's the worst case scenario because you then have mass corruption / corporatism also known as crony capitalism.
Reply
Old 12-02-2019 | 09:46 AM
  #98  
rickair7777's Avatar
Prime Minister/Moderator
Veteran: Navy
 
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 45,143
Likes: 800
From: Engines Turn or People Swim
Default

Originally Posted by SonicFlyer
I agree with law enforcement and defense but the FAA should be privatized, it isn't even Constitutional. Canada has a private ATC system and it seems to be working well for them.
ATC, sure. It's a commodity, easy to define requirements and performance metrics, and supervise compliance of the service provider.

FAA, no. They are a regulator, not a service provider. Look at what happened with the Max when they "outsourced" some regulatory authority...


The constitution says government must do some things, and it says it must not do certain other things. Anything not specifically called out is fair game either way.

The constitution does NOT prescribe how the government runs, it just sets some boundaries. I'm not a softy on the constitution by any means, I actually took an oath on that. But it has to be taken fairly literally, otherwise anyone can rationalize anything and then you have to take up arms to settle the issue.

Originally Posted by SonicFlyer
No, that's the worst case scenario because you then have mass corruption / corporatism also known as crony capitalism.
As opposed to corporations with no oversight?

Obviously elected officials have to watch the the overseers, and the voters have to watch the elected officials. If not, then your crooked types will naturally gravitate to unsupervised public money.
Reply
Old 12-02-2019 | 09:49 AM
  #99  
rickair7777's Avatar
Prime Minister/Moderator
Veteran: Navy
 
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 45,143
Likes: 800
From: Engines Turn or People Swim
Default

Originally Posted by Gone Flying
no doubt there are many other factors and overall air travel generates many efficiencies lost on surface transportation. but just a blanket ststment saying planes have better MPG than cars by using per seat on a plane vs per vehicle on a car can be a flawed logic; assuming you are traveling with your family and not alone
Yes, I agree. But it's close enough to a wash, since most planes carry cargo, and most drivers don't take a family of five.

I think on average driving is probably a little more efficient but not by a large margin. Not enough to justify a three-day road trip over a three hour flight (unless you're on vacation and want to see the scenery).
Reply
Old 12-02-2019 | 10:20 AM
  #100  
Banned
 
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 4,208
Likes: 7
Default

Originally Posted by rickair7777
The constitution says government must do some things, and it says it must not do certain other things. Anything not specifically called out is fair game either way.
Have you ever read the 9th and 10th Amendments?
Reply

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



Your Privacy Choices