yikes, feel bad for anyone who has to disclose that on an app now

 

Why?

It's only negative if one fails the ride. An explanation of the purpose of the re-exam should suffice if disclosed.

 

The computer will lower your score for checking a box related to checkride repeats, failures, 709, etc.

Some employers may be suspicious that there may have been under-handed dealings on the part of the applicant as well as the DPE (was this guy known as Santa-for-the-right-price?). Rather than do the research and try to make a judgement, they might simply move on to the next applicant. Their objective is not to be fair, but to hire people with the minimum effort and expense on their part. That's why squeeky-clean is so popular with airline HR ladies... no in-depth research or risky judgement calls required. Hopefully most will weigh this appropriately and not hold it against the applicant.

 

Those HR ladies and their processes is what has turned airline hiring into a joke.

 

Honestly, if I were in these guys shoes, I'd likely NOT check the box for 709 ride and do what Rick suggested in post #46.

Lets face it, the INTENT of the question on the application is whether or not you've taken a 709 ride, etc because of something YOU DID. Not because of the misconduct of another individual (who represents the FAA none-the-less) that the applicant likely had little idea about.

Of course, if you KNOWINGLY went to this particular DPE because of him just handing out certs and you knowingly were aware that he'd likely get busted and you'd have to be reexamined, then I have less sympathy.

At the end of the day, we need to do away with the computer being a firewall to selecting apps for interview. I mean....after all with the current method...freakin Sully of all guys, would be called in for an interview after someone with no accident on their record. That is asinine to the core.

Exactly. We need to go back to the days where pilots hired pilots. I mean.......they are the ones who will have to spend 4 days at a time with said individual, and have a vested interest in weeding out the bad apples.

 

Dangerous. They want you to be literally honest and answer the question they asked. The circumstances behind the question are theirs to judge, not yours. Not disclosing a 709 ride which they asked about on the app will get you deleted. About 100% sure on that.

 

I totally understand. If they are going to take that tact then, on the other hand they need to completely do away with using the computer as a firewall. Don't get me wrong, asking about any and all of this in the interview is absolutely fair game, but they should be able to have the chance to do just that, since the 709 was due to the misconduct of an FAA representative, not because of their own bad judgement/mistake.

Like I said, Sully or Haines would have had a lower score because they would have to check the accident box. How is that not absolutely absurd?

 

That also had its own problems. A CP's friend's son getting hired over someone who was more qualified, guard buddies blocking out civilian applicants, etc. When I first started, I lived in base but I was told I should still get a crashpad so I could network with mainline pilots. I thought it was ridiculous, but then a new captain I flew with met a person at FedEx at a crahspad who knew someone involved with the interview process and he got an interview way ahead of more qualified people.

The number of airlines has drastically deceased in the last 20 years. As a result, each airline has to handle way more applicants. Relying on personal connections and trying to prove to HR that your drinking buddy is more qualified than someone doesn't scale well when you have 5,000 applications to go through. The new ways aren't perfect either, but to say pilots don't have control over who they hire is just false. A computer system may be in charge of who GETS the interview, but in the end, a group of pilots are heavily involved in the hiring process.

Sure there are some HR people in the room, but contrary to what many pilots think, they are there for a good reason. While there are many great pilots who can fly a single engine approach perfectly, lots of them can't handle conflict well. They are type A personalities who only know who to work with other type A's. Airlines got sick of great pilots causing PR nightmares with passengers. Getting HR people involved with the hiring process helps weed those people out.

 

No question that that would have its own set of problems. Every system certainly has its flaws. Just to be clear, I'm only talking about the computer firewall when it comes to getting an interview, not whether or not you are hired once you've interviewed. Big difference.

Back to the original discussion......I don't recall ever being asked about 709 rides when I filled out the application to any of the 3 regionals I applied at. It only asked about violations, accidents, incidents, and failed checkrides...so I'm not even sure the question would come up.

I do recall though that in lieu of a 709 ride, that one could take a checkride for another certificate or rating. That'd be a much safer path to go down (ASES would be a blast!) with the only risk being that its just another jeopardy event which of course you've done dozens of by the time you are competitive for a major

 

Actually, they don't. It's their ball and their rules. Just gotta accept that to play the game right.

That is true. But the HR ladies don't care, they'd have to do extra work to research those accidents.