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AVIATE don’t join !

This post is for anyone thinking about joining Aviate in hopes that it will better there chances at United. First of all there is NO SENIORITY LIST , that means once you reach your requirements they will pick you if they decide. There are people who joined Aviate before others and have not been called.

United also has contract obligations with the regional carriers so they will NOT take all of there Aviate participants as much as you would think. Instead they are hiring pilots with 2 years of experience mainly from Envoy,Piedmont and PSA.

If your already in Aviate or at the Academy get ready for what’s next. You’ll be stuck at regional express carrier for United making $40 less than a AA regional. You’ll have no Senority number and you’ll be flying a dying fleet unless you go to MESA or GOJET.

All such flow-like programs exist for one reason: To keep the feeders manned. They do NOT exist to expedite your progress to a legacy :rolleyes:

In this climate they have some utility for those with significant blackmarks, who might face uncertainty in getting an eventual call.

For those with a decent record, in this climate, your best bet is OTS.

If I was starting out today (knowing what I know now) I might do some kind of flow for the legacy I *least* wanted to work for... try for OTS with my top picks, but still have a plan C just in case. Statistically, OTS will be faster for most.

Quote:

Originally Posted by V1rotate2500 (Post 3460713)

MESA and GOJET don’t have a dying fleet. They’re just dying.

But But But isn't it awesome that over half of the applicants will be women or people of colors?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Old Tired (Post 3461306)

But But But isn't it awesome that over half of the applicants will be women or people of colors?

The Aviation industry is full of white conservatives. Give minorities a chance. How many airline pilots are Asian, black, Indian, Middle Eastern? Not a whole lot. Without what united is doing, it will continue to be run by old white boomers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by V1rotate2500 (Post 3460713)

You make a great observation. I’m in Aviate and have been for awhile and still haven’t received a call and yet “less experienced” pilots are getting hired off the street.

I do NOT believe in flows or programs of any sort. Example, look at Compass Airlines, owned by Northwest up/down flow and now they are no longer with us. (RIP Conpass). Just saying this industry is two shades of messed up and hope I didn’t just date myself here 😂

Quote:

Originally Posted by PUNK (Post 3461544)

What the hell does conservative have to do with it? Almost every black pilot I’ve flown with and am friends with at SWA is also….conservative.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PUNK (Post 3461544)

Yawn......... As a famous conservative Speaker of the House once said... "It doesn't matter what the facts are, it's how you feel about them"

https://www.forbes.com/sites/startsw...h=93e5f5e47252

Quote:

Originally Posted by PUNK (Post 3461544)

Nobodies excluding anybody, it's been quite the opposite for decades. EVERY desirable job or employer in this country has been falling all over itself to hire diversity for the last 20-30 years. Every employer I've ever had (except the one that provided heavy marine services to the fishing industry, they were all Italians).

The issue for diversity is two-fold:

Young Men: Either don't develop an interest in aviation while young due to cultural differences compared to whites. Or don't have access to the education and/or finance necessary to pursue the career. I'm OK with and would advocate addressing that by enabling access to the foundational stuff at a very young age, get them off to a good start, show what's possible and available, and let them decide. You can always join the mil, I didn't have money as a teenager so that's what I did. Back then I could have also attended Hometown State U for less $1K/semester and worked construction or even fast food to live. Today you'd need financial aid even for that, but it is available.

But when you actually get hired for a job like this, it needs to be competitive on an equal footing.

Young Women: Guess what? Most are just not interested in technology, airplanes, or being gone all the time during child-bearing/raising years. For those who are, opportunities abound. I don't see the problem. That one is all a bunch of political BS, because they know it will NEVER change and so they get to keep making woke hay out of the issue in perpetuity.

Want to do outreach so young girls know what's available? Sure, why not. But how many of us pilots have male family members in aviation? I'm good for three generations, and the only reason it's not four is because they didn't even have aircraft carriers in Great-Grandad's era (Grandad flew off the Langley). How many of us have female family members in aviation? I have an Aunt who got a PPL. They *should* have had the same opportunities (education, money, mentors) as their brothers, at least since 1980 or so. My sisters and cousins are mostly all white-collar professionals... they *could* have done aviation if they wanted to.

And don't get me started on the idea that women should get special out-of-seniority schedules and paid leave that's not available to dads or men in general for other reasons they might have :rolleyes:

Quote:

Originally Posted by rickair7777 (Post 3461742)

Nobodies excluding anybody, it's been quite the opposite for decades. EVERY desirable job or employer in this country has been falling all over itself to hire diversity for the last 20-30 years. Every employer I've ever had (except the one the that provided heavy marine services to the fishing industry, they were all Italians).

The issue for diversity is two-fold:

Young Men: Either don't develop an interest in aviation while young due to cultural differences compared to whites. Or don't have access to the education and/or finance necessary to pursue the career. I'm OK with and would advocate addressing that by enabling access to the foundational stuff at a very young age, get them off to a good start, show what's possible and available, and let them decide. You can always join the mil, I didn't have money as a teenager so that's what I did. Back then I could have also attended Hometown State U for less $1K/semester and worked construction or even fast food to live. Today you'd need financial aid even for that, but it is available.

But when you actually get hired for a job like this, it needs to be competitive on an equal footing.

Young Women: Guess what? Most are just not interested in technology, airplanes, or being gone all the time during child-bearing/raising years. For those who are, opportunities abound. I don't see the problem. That one is all a bunch of political BS, because they know it will NEVER change and so they get to keep making woke hay out of the issue in perpetuity.

Want to do outreach so young girls know what's available? Sure, why not. But how many of us pilots have male family members in aviation? I'm good for three generations, and the only reason it's not four is because they didn't even have aircraft carriers in Great-Grandad's era (Grandad flew off the Langley). How many of us have female family members in aviation? I have an Aunt who got a PPL. They *should* have had the same opportunities (education, money, mentors) as their brothers, at least since 1980 or so. My sisters and cousins are mostly all white-collar professionals... they *could* have done aviation if they wanted to.

And don't get me started on the idea that women should get special out-of-seniority schedules and paid leave that's not available to dads or men in general for other reasons they might have :rolleyes:

This is not how the modern leftist elites/media view the world. Every occupation should mirror the demographics of society (except pro sports teams, they're perfectly fine with them not having diversity.)

If every occupation does not mirror a cross section of society, it's due to barriers. Not personal choices, not interests, not motivation. Barriers.

Sweden, socialist progressive utopia that it is, was aghast that there weren't enough female engineers and male schoolteachers 20 years ago. They attempted to rectify the problem through scholarships, public education, "Mentoring," ...

The result after 20 years: There was even more disparity in occupations than before the effort. Liberal social scientists reluctantly acknowledged the results. It turns out women like people and guys like things. People choose their paths.