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Young pilots
Hi all. This is my first post on this forum. I am currently working on my multi- commercial rating at a part 141 University. Almost every day at the airport I am hearing about the possibilities of graduating (which I have done already), finishing up your commercial license and getting a job with the regionals. I have read how a lot of you guys/gals already in the industry are a little unsure about such low time folks getting jobs as FOs. However, since I am in the position to possibly get a job as a low time pilot, why shouldn't I take it? I have a lot of student loans to pay off and need to get my career started ASAP. I know the number one response to the question that I am raising is experience, but I feel like I could handle it, especially after I complete the optional CRJ jet course that is available to me. I was just curious as to what you guys think about it. If these low time pilots can make it through training, then why don't they deserve to be there? |
Go for it! If you think you can do it, then you will do it! I absolutely say go for the job if it's offered to you. If you get through the training, you are just as privleged to be there as anyone else. Best of luck to you and keep us posted on your job hunt!
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Those CRJ courses are a waste of money in my opinion. The airline will teach you everything you need to know if you get hired. If you one can't pass that training perhaps they aren't ready for airline flying. It's ok to have self-confidence as a low timer but no 300 hour guy is truly ready to be in command of a regional jet. You are in the right seat to assist the Captain as necessary and take over if something happens to him. The lower and more widespread this trend becomes, the more I don't want my family on anything but a mainline flight. I think it's only a matter of time until we see an increase in incidents and/or accidents because the deck is being stacked against experience.
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It's pretty safe to say that even with regionals hiring the young guys out there have their own standards, hence the high washout rates. Young doesn't neccessarily mean inexperience. For example, a person can be starting his flight lessons when he hits 17/18. And then you got a guy who's well in his 30s and still be starting his first flight lesson. Hours is what makes a pilot experienced, not the age.
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Originally Posted by KiloDelta
(Post 193332)
Hi all. This is my first post on this forum. I am currently working on my multi- commercial rating at a part 141 University. Almost every day at the airport I am hearing about the possibilities of graduating (which I have done already), finishing up your commercial license and getting a job with the regionals. I have read how a lot of you guys/gals already in the industry are a little unsure about such low time folks getting jobs as FOs. However, since I am in the position to possibly get a job as a low time pilot, why shouldn't I take it? I have a lot of student loans to pay off and need to get my career started ASAP. I know the number one response to the question that I am raising is experience, but I feel like I could handle it, especially after I complete the optional CRJ jet course that is available to me. I was just curious as to what you guys think about it. If these low time pilots can make it through training, then why don't they deserve to be there? You lack the experience. And I don't mean flying a fast/big airplane, but operating in the 121 environment. I've flown a few hundred hours operating in the 135 environment and I'm noticing now how different the 121 world is and how a new guy [with not even a commercial] could easily be chewed alive. Esp. in a jet You havent even flown with more than 3 people aboard an airplane :eek: Don't mean to bust your balls....but.... "just my .02cents" |
Originally Posted by rustypilot
(Post 193339)
It's pretty safe to say that even with regionals hiring the young guys out there have their own standards, hence the high washout rates. Young doesn't neccessarily mean inexperience. For example, a person can be starting his flight lessons when he hits 17/18. And then you got a guy who's well in his 30s and still be starting his first flight lesson. Hours is what makes a pilot experienced, not the age.
How would ya feel when you find out your pilot up front cant sit at a bar? :D I got hired at 19:p 20 now though...so much older:cool: |
Originally Posted by Slice
(Post 193336)
Those CRJ courses are a waste of money in my opinion. The airline will teach you everything you need to know if you get hired. If you one can't pass that training perhaps they aren't ready for airline flying. It's ok to have self-confidence as a low timer but no 300 hour guy is truly ready to be in command of a regional jet. You are in the right seat to assist the Captain as necessary and take over if something happens to him. The lower and more widespread this trend becomes, the more I don't want my family on anything but a mainline flight. I think it's only a matter of time until we see an increase in incidents and/or accidents because the deck is being stacked against experience.
Referring to your statement about low timers not being ready to be in command of a jet, isn't that what the training process is for? New hires who washout obviously aren't ready, but those who make it through training and have ample knowledge of the systems and procedures should be respected and allowed to work! |
Originally Posted by shanejj
(Post 193346)
How would ya feel when you find out your pilot up front cant sit at a bar? :D
I got hired at 19:p 20 now though...so much older:cool: |
Originally Posted by Slice
(Post 193336)
Those CRJ courses are a waste of money in my opinion. The airline will teach you everything you need to know if you get hired. If you one can't pass that training perhaps they aren't ready for airline flying. It's ok to have self-confidence as a low timer but no 300 hour guy is truly ready to be in command of a regional jet. You are in the right seat to assist the Captain as necessary and take over if something happens to him. The lower and more widespread this trend becomes, the more I don't want my family on anything but a mainline flight. I think it's only a matter of time until we see an increase in incidents and/or accidents because the deck is being stacked against experience.
The CRJ courses are usually cheaper when affiliated with a university so I don't think he'll be spending the "ATP" costs. I'm not so sure about the increase in accidents/incidents either. The training is pretty damn good at most carriers. Just because the time requirements have been lowered doesn't mean the expectations of the pilots has been lowered. In training, they expect just as much out of the 250hr guy as the 3000hr guy. I don't recall the classes ever being split with high timers in one and low in the other. Everyone is in the same class, studying the same stuff, taking the same sim rides, etc etc. |
Originally Posted by KiloDelta
(Post 193348)
This CRJ course is a little different than the ones you may be referring to. This is a level 5 CRJ-200 course offered through the University. Upon completing this specific course, the hiring minimums for several airlines that my University has bridge agreements with are lowered significantly.
Referring to your statement about low timers not being ready to be in command of a jet, isn't that what the training process is for? New hires who washout obviously aren't ready, but those who make it through training and have ample knowledge of the systems and procedures should be respected and allowed to work! Not to teach you to maintain on time departures/arrivals, meeting passenger demands, operating safely and around the airport. And fast. You have connection flights to make;) |
I still trust a highly-seasoned pilot over a freshly new graduate :)
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Hello
Shane flys for PSA now either he is still on IOE or been signed off and released to the line as reserve.
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.........
Originally Posted by rustypilot
(Post 193349)
Who you fly for now?
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Originally Posted by shanejj
(Post 193345)
You lack the experience.
And I don't mean flying a fast/big airplane, but operating in the 121 environment. I've flown a few hundred hours operating in the 135 environment and I'm noticing now how different the 121 world is and how a new guy [with not even a commercial] could easily be chewed alive. Esp. in a jet You havent even flown with more than 3 people aboard an airplane :eek: Don't mean to bust your balls....but.... "just my .02cents" BTW, I flew my instructor and 4 passengers to dinner one night:D |
Originally Posted by pilot754
(Post 193356)
Shane flys for PSA now either he is still on IOE or been signed off and released to the line as reserve.
Glad to see you're back |
shane: you a reserve now?
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Originally Posted by KiloDelta
(Post 193359)
I respect your 2 cents for sure, but a lot of people go from their commercial license to CFIing for a year or two, then jump to FO in a regional airline. Not that much of a difference in experience in my opinion.
BTW, I flew my instructor and 4 passengers to dinner one night:D Thats why I never got my CFI. Never believed that CFIing would teach you much past around 500 dual given. Some people WILL disagree with me.....but...it's true. I think operating in a 135/91 environment will prepare you more for the 121 world though. Doing stalls all day long in a 172 won't. Unless you're teaching lazy eights in an RJ:D |
Originally Posted by rustypilot
(Post 193364)
shane: you a reserve now?
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Originally Posted by shanejj
(Post 193345)
You lack the experience.
And I don't mean flying a fast/big airplane, but operating in the 121 environment. I've flown a few hundred hours operating in the 135 environment and I'm noticing now how different the 121 world is and how a new guy [with not even a commercial] could easily be chewed alive. Esp. in a jet You havent even flown with more than 3 people aboard an airplane :eek: Don't mean to bust your balls....but.... "just my .02cents" I can't disagree with you about the CFIing. :D I do side with your about 91/135 experience but that's difficult to get if you don't have 1200hrs....At least at most places. Major kudos again for getting hired at 20. I would have jumped all over it if I had that opportunity at that age. |
hahah Shane... you forgot stalls :P
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Originally Posted by blastboy
(Post 193369)
Weren't you just hired with no 121 experience and low time? The only place to get 121 experience is to fly 121. He might also have a family member or close friend who flies 121. I know quite a few guys who grew up in aviation families do very well in training and IOE. Speaking of, how is your IOE going? You must be having a blast! I hope to see you there sooner or later.
But I wasn't a fresh new commercial rated pilot. Had been in the 135 environment for over 2 years when I was picked up by PSA And you're right. No one can teach you 121 really, but your experience will come into play when your demanded to be on time, work your way around a very busy ramp, do radios, keep FARs in consideration, and make sure you don't kill 50 people. I just started IOE and I'm def. noticing what some idiots on this board were talking about. But, I'm 20....young enough to still learn and pick it up fast:D 1200hrs is for PIC There's is no requirement asking for so much PIC time at the places you can go at this time.... I used to be what you call a "gear swinger":D |
shane, if you dont mind me asking what 135 company did you work for since you are only 20? Did you fly boxes or what?
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Originally Posted by rustypilot
(Post 193370)
hahah Shane... you forgot stalls :P
if you get urself in that situation, you shouldn't be flying. |
Originally Posted by flyingfalcon401
(Post 193381)
shane, if you dont mind me asking what 135 company did you work for since you are only 20? Did you fly boxes or what?
I never had my 1200hrs. I was a gear swinging monkey |
Why in God's name would you want to go to work at such a young age?
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gear swinging monkey - fits your avatar :P
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Originally Posted by shanejj
(Post 193385)
stalls suck balls...
if you get urself in that situation, you shouldn't be flying. I'm curious too Shane. What 135 outfit were you flying for? I would love to get some 135 experience if I could find it. :D |
Originally Posted by POPA
(Post 193388)
Why in God's name would you want to go to work at such a young age?
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Attention all aircraft ...err...members...0054Z
I've been on this website for 3 hours straight. I'm bored in my hotel on IOE. Now I see how The SAAB has over 2000 posts or something:D |
Originally Posted by POPA
(Post 193388)
Why in God's name would you want to go to work at such a young age?
I took a couple years off after high school, some in between college, to travel centroamerica, hawaii, japan, panama, canada....Wouldn't take it back for anything. |
I agree about the chatroom, we def. need one haha. I am curious about this 135 operation.
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Originally Posted by POPA
(Post 193388)
Why in God's name would you want to go to work at such a young age?
I just really wanted this since I was 3 years old. So, I was fortunate enough;) |
Originally Posted by shanejj
(Post 193393)
Attention all aircraft ...err...members...0054Z
I've been on this website for 3 hours straight. I'm bored in my hotel on IOE. Now I see how The SAAB has over 2000 posts or something:D |
Man, this thread is just like a chatroom. Everytime I post, shane posted, flying flacon posted....
We need to suggest to HSLD to get a chatroom. I know exactly how you felt at age 3. If I could have gotten a job at age 10 flying 727s at Pan Am with dad, I would have done it. But then I woke up and realized I was daydreaming in 3rd grade math class. :D |
Originally Posted by shanejj
(Post 193396)
Cause by the time I'm your age, I won't have to worry about a thing:D
I just really wanted this since I was 3 years old. So, I was fortunate enough;) |
Originally Posted by flyingfalcon401
(Post 193395)
I agree about the chatroom, we def. need one haha. I am curious about this 135 operation.
see...first of all you have to be cool like me:cool:... .... But really, my instructor used to fly there part time and used to take me on trips. Got to get to know the other instructors. They knew I wanted the time and experience so they allowed me to sit next to them. The pax felt "safer" and sometimes it's needed....when autopilot was deferred.[which it never was but...] |
Originally Posted by blastboy
(Post 193394)
God, that avatar is killing me. LOL What would you do if you were in his shoes?
I took a couple years off after high school, some in between college, to travel centroamerica, hawaii, japan, panama, canada....Wouldn't take it back for anything. If I could go back to that age and do it over again, the first thing I'd do is finish college. Then I'd go fly float planes in the Carribbean for a few years. I made the mistake of starting my first 121 job four months after I graduated college. The only good part about that is that after my two-year contract is up at CHQ, I can quit, go fly Twotters in shorts and sandals, and still be able to blame it on being young and stupid. :D |
Originally Posted by rustypilot
(Post 193399)
When I was 3, I was playing in the sandcastle with girls and was scared of koodies :p
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Originally Posted by shanejj
(Post 193400)
It's not like it's a "special" operation....
see...first of all you have to be cool like me:cool:... .... But really, my instructor used to fly there part time and used to take me on trips. Got to get to know the other instructors. They knew I wanted the time and experience so they allowed me to sit next to them. The pax felt "safer" and sometimes it's needed....when autopilot was deferred.[which it never was but...] |
Originally Posted by shanejj
(Post 193403)
Sh!t, at 3 I was asking the girls to "go do what they do in the movies" :D
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