Mesa Pilots
07-29-2007 | 10:23 AM
#21
Prime Minister/Moderator
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From: Engines Turn or People Swim
I'm having trouble understanding this as well. I always assumed that it was block or better. So when you say historic block does that mean they take a 5 day trip, for example, and calculate the average for those 5 days?
day 1: 7hrs
day 2: 5hrs
day 3: 8hrs
day 4: 4hrs
day 5: 8hrs
grand total = 32 hrs
average = 6.4 hrs/day
I don't think my arithmatic is making sense to even me but I just want to get a general idea of how average block and historic block works. Gracias.
day 1: 7hrs
day 2: 5hrs
day 3: 8hrs
day 4: 4hrs
day 5: 8hrs
grand total = 32 hrs
average = 6.4 hrs/day
I don't think my arithmatic is making sense to even me but I just want to get a general idea of how average block and historic block works. Gracias.
The historic block is not by day, it is per each flight leg. They take the historic "average" of the time to fly between city pairs and that's what you get paid (only if the flight completes).
The average is artificially low, because the company "adjusts" block times that have significant delays. This keeps the historic average low and also keeps the pilot's weekly, monthly, and annual flight times lower than actual.
If you work at mesa you MUST keep your own written record of block times to ensure that you don't exceed flight time limits.
07-29-2007 | 12:06 PM
#22
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From: SkyWest Capt.
The historic block is not by day, it is per each flight leg. They take the historic "average" of the time to fly between city pairs and that's what you get paid (only if the flight completes).
The average is artificially low, because the company "adjusts" block times that have significant delays. This keeps the historic average low and also keeps the pilot's weekly, monthly, and annual flight times lower than actual.
If you work at mesa you MUST keep your own written record of block times to ensure that you don't exceed flight time limits.
The average is artificially low, because the company "adjusts" block times that have significant delays. This keeps the historic average low and also keeps the pilot's weekly, monthly, and annual flight times lower than actual.
If you work at mesa you MUST keep your own written record of block times to ensure that you don't exceed flight time limits.
THIS IS HUGE; it's why MAG has the lowest labor cost in the industry and it costs their pilots an enormous about of pay that is rightfully theirs.
After all it was JO who said, “As long as there’s a stack of resumes on my desk then pilots are overpaid!” What a leader, if you want to follow someone into "hell."
07-29-2007 | 01:41 PM
#23
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From: Spartan
It happens at SKW as well, most of the time its new CA’s waiting for IOE who ride the right seat at 150% CA pay. I had a friend who was waiting for CA IOE and flew an 82 hour month as FO. His normal CA pay was $60 an hour and he was still paid his monthly guarantee seeing that all his FO flying was above and beyond his reserve pay, so here's how his month broke down:
Jr Manned: 82 hrs X ($60 X 150%) = $7,380
Plus:
Guarantee: 75 hrs X $60 = $4,500
$7,380 + $4,500 + $425 (per diem) = $12,305
NICE MONTH!
P.S. He couldn’t sitting reserve because he hadn’t finish IOE.
Jr Manned: 82 hrs X ($60 X 150%) = $7,380
Plus:
Guarantee: 75 hrs X $60 = $4,500
$7,380 + $4,500 + $425 (per diem) = $12,305
NICE MONTH!
P.S. He couldn’t sitting reserve because he hadn’t finish IOE.
07-29-2007 | 02:31 PM
#24
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From: SkyWest Capt.
Are you sure about the math here? Don't know the SKW contract but it would seem that 82 hours x 1.5 would be what your friend would get paid without the re-addition of the guarantee (75)you figured in...that would be getting paid twice in addition to JR pay. Nice but sounds too good to be true.
If you are sitting reserve and pick up flying it does not count toward breaking guarantee, instead it is paid above and beyond (in addition too). BTW, I as well as everyone else at SKW takes advantage if these policies. It's one of the many reasons why we are among, if not the, highest paid.
07-29-2007 | 02:33 PM
#25
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined: Jan 2006
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From: Engines Turn or People Swim
Are you sure about the math here? Don't know the SKW contract but it would seem that 82 hours x 1.5 would be what your friend would get paid without the re-addition of the guarantee (75)you figured in...that would be getting paid twice in addition to JR pay. Nice but sounds too good to be true.
I'm not certain, but I did hear that volunteer flying for those awaiting training goes on top of guarantee. Otherwise why volunteer? (you cannot be junior assigned at SKW). We're not at mesa anymore, lol
07-29-2007 | 03:19 PM
#26
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From: Spartan
07-29-2007 | 04:03 PM
#27
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Joined: Mar 2007
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From: RC-3 Seabee. Skipper of the A21 cutter.
Exactly, Historic Block is a per leg basis; it's the historic average time it takes to fly from A to B. That's all you get paid at MAG, so if you hold, go missed approach and vectored around from another, go around, divert, 41st inline or what ever it maybe; you don't get paid for any overages. If you like working for free then MAG is right for you!
THIS IS HUGE; it's why MAG has the lowest labor cost in the industry and it costs their pilots an enormous about of pay that is rightfully theirs.
After all it was JO who said, “As long as there’s a stack of resumes on my desk then pilots are overpaid!” What a leader, if you want to follow someone into "hell."
THIS IS HUGE; it's why MAG has the lowest labor cost in the industry and it costs their pilots an enormous about of pay that is rightfully theirs.
After all it was JO who said, “As long as there’s a stack of resumes on my desk then pilots are overpaid!” What a leader, if you want to follow someone into "hell."
JO is one evil SOB. I hope karma catches up with him some day. Anyway, thanks for all the info. Much appreciated.
07-29-2007 | 04:07 PM
#28
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From: Spartan
I'm glad I asked about this because it was one part of the MAG contract that I was not sure on. I have no intentions of working for Mesa but I wanted to get a crystal clear understanding of why it is such a horrible place to work. The way they calculate block is the number one reason not to work there, at least for myself. I don't know how the MAG guys put up with it.
JO is one evil SOB. I hope karma catches up with him some day. Anyway, thanks for all the info. Much appreciated.
JO is one evil SOB. I hope karma catches up with him some day. Anyway, thanks for all the info. Much appreciated.
07-29-2007 | 04:36 PM
#30
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Joined: Mar 2006
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From: A Big One
I'd never deny a MAG pilot my jump. They gave up a lot to keep their flying in house and I'd gladly buy them a beer because of the BS they have to put up with from JO. But still, friends don't let friends work for JO.
MAG’s current situation is completely different from that of BlowJet!
MAG’s current situation is completely different from that of BlowJet!
B and C listers are always welcome!!!
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