It was pilot error no matter how you slice it. Stating it isn't being a "Monday morning quarterback" and thinking otherwise is ignorance.. No one said they were impervious to such mistakes. Matter of fact it looks like most people are calling it a tragedy and learning from it. In our training class and several times in the cockpit this exact incident has been cited as to a reason why we do something and not get ahead of ourselves. It is most definitely a tragedy in every shape in form but I'm willing to bet it's crossed people's minds once or twice and made them double check something they weren't 100% sure about. Who knows what has been avoided because of it.

 

agreed....

 

I've instructed my wife to avoid telling anyone anything about my pilot skills if I ever happen to be involved in an aircraft accident. She may defend my ability as a husband and father, but I don't want her to become a pawn in the political and or media circus that surrounds "what happened". I feel deeply for Mrs. Clay and her children and hope that she can avoid being used by the media.

 

How is the FO doing? I've done searches and there appears to be no info on his condition.

 

As stated above multiple times, no one can argue that this was pilot error, but his wife is right in that there were a number of other contributing factors, many of us agree that prior to this unfortunate accident the signs at LEX were poor at best. The other issue I take with the NTSB is the fact that they continue to ignore fatigue as a primary cause of accidents such as this one.

Was the crew responsible? Absolutely, do we need to have a weekly thread about it? Negative, that's why there's CRM initial/recurrent class at your friendly 121 carrier. All I'm saying folks is we all know what happened, let the poor guys memory rest in peace.

 

Who has CRM in initial/recurrent class? It's woefully inadequate at my carrier. There was zip when I was a newhire... I mean, yea we mention it all the time, but who actually takes the time to teach it to the kiddies?

Herc- I can understand your points; they are well articulated and valid. However, this statement simply marginalizes the equally valid points made by plasticpi. I think he was on point when asserting:

There is a pervading mentality in the aviation world that a CA with 4 stripes on his/her shoulder-boards and scrambled eggs on the bill makes that person a super-hero with super-abilities. These are the same attributes awarded to law-enforcement. When we deconstruct that image in the light of occurrences like brutality or corruption cases we start to see it is a fallacy.

Here, there has been a tragedy. If we can divorce ourselves from emotional appeals a lot can be learned about behavior patterns and realistic expectations of human performance.

Just my 2 cents, for what its worth.

 

My response concerning the flight crew being a victim had nothing to do with the point you highlighted it had to do with the statement that more and more th crew was a victim of circumstance. which in my mind was trying to lessen the responsibility that the CA had for ensuring that he was taking off from the right runway in this case.

I understood and at some level probably agree with his asertion that no ca has full an effective authority... but he does when it comes to how the aircraft is handled while "under" power... that is all.

We have exhausted this subject in my opinion and really I dont think we are all that far off in how we feel. It is what it is, and mistakes were made on at least two levels. What I do think is wrong is to marginalize the responsibility the CA ( or aircraft commander for military types ) takes when he "signs" for the aircraft. In no way do I believe they are super-heroes with super abilities, but that doesnt make the captain of any flight less responsible for what happens to that aircraft and its occupants.

Safe flying to all.

 

In general Comair and other airlines should take the blame. What were the pilots talking about before their takeoff? They were talking about finding other jobs. Now why were they talking about finding other jobs? It is because their quality of life at Comair like most other airlines flat out sucks. When a company does not take care of its employees, they are going to look for another job which in turn detracts from their performance whether they are a waiter, policeman, or pilot. It is a known fact the three most stressful things to deal with in a person's life is 1. Divorce 2. Death of family member/friend 3. Change of Job. Nobody wants to willingly change jobs or even talk about it. The pilots were talking about changing jobs because along with every other pilot with some "decent" amount of time on the job are not happy at Comair. Moral is low and unfortunately the airlines do not realize safety is compromised when simple quality of life issues are not addressed. No doubt there was mistakes made, but WHY these mistakes were made is the bigger question that nobody( NTSB, FAA, Airlines, etc.) is looking at.

 

Here is the latest information I could find......


http://www.courier-journal.com/apps/...WS01/708180450

 

Point taken about the quality of life, or lack thereof as the case may be...but seriously blaming the airlines for this accident is nothing short of a cop-out. The crew members are not just performing a service for the pax in the back...THEY are in that tube as well. Notwithstanding all the BS that DL/Comair has put their employees through, do you really propose to blame them for him getting so distracted by poor labor relations that he ultimately killed all the pax, the F/A and himself? If that was where his head was at that morning than he was not fit to fly and should have called in sick. FAR's and ATC aside, no one, other than the other flight crew member (F/O) can physically override the captain from manipulating the controls of HIS/HER aircraft...period.

And for the record, I hate to make it seem like Im dragging this dead man's name and reputation through the mud, because thats not my intention. However the sympathy that we all feel for him should not get in the way of the facts.